The Search for Dark Matter - Butterworth Article

[Dave2042 (Dave)]

Hi all

I thought this was a particularly good article on dark matter from a particle physics perspective. In particular it has an excellent discussion of null hypothesis testing and how this helps in the interaction between theory and experiment. It also talks about how the particle physicists use 'fake' data to keep themselves honest, with the clearest explanation I've seen so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...or-dark-matter

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by Dave2042

Hi all

I thought this was a particularly good article on dark matter from a particle physics perspective. In particular it has an excellent discussion of null hypothesis testing and how this helps in the interaction between theory and experiment. It also talks about how the particle physicists use 'fake' data to keep themselves honest, with the clearest explanation I've seen so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...or-dark-matter

indeed, the LIGO researchers would tap on the long testing tunnel producing "false" readings and then document the false data in sealed envelopes. When a potential candidate for a gravitational wave signal was detected by the LIGO team, they would first check the list of false or fake data.

In fact the first "genuine" LIGO gravitational wave signal in September 2015 was recorded during routine commissioning runs scheduled a few days before the official opening of the research centre. The detector was allowed to run throughout the night and when scientists returned at about 5AM there was a glaring signal in front of them. Their First response was to check who the smart arse was that was hitting the detector with a hammer. On this occasion they couldnt find any paper work nor anyone putting their hand up.

In Society Physicists make the best liars and criminals by far (one only needs to look at the obscene and immoral slaughter of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII to understand how evil this profession can get). Their level of perpetuated and disseminated deceit is unparalleled in the known visible and non-visible universe as we know it and in any realm that you care to recognise or depict using crayons. (only about 2.3% of my friends and acquaintances are qualified Physicists - a state of affairs that is currently being dealt with by my legal team so I cannot comment any further at this moment in time - but in the fullness of time I may be able to shed additional photons upon this matter so that the general public can be made aware of this serious and potentially destructive social issue)

cheers

[bojan]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

....
In Society Physicists make the best liars and criminals by far (one only needs to look at the obscene and immoral slaughter of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII to understand how evil this profession can get). Their level of perpetuated and disseminated deceit is unparalleled in the known visible and non-visible universe as we know it and in any realm that you care to recognise or depict using crayons. (only about 2.3% of my friends and acquaintances are qualified Physicists - a state of affairs that is currently being dealt with by my legal team so I cannot comment any further at this moment in time - but in the fullness of time I may be able to shed additional photons upon this matter so that the general public can be made aware of this serious and potentially destructive social issue)

cheers

Don't you think that part of the blame lay with politicians?

Anyway, Peter, I think you are really over the top with this rant of yours.
This is amaterur science section of the forum, not "steams my clams" one.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Don't you think that part of the blame lay with politicians?

Anyway, Peter, I think you are really over the top with this rant of yours.
This is amaterur science section of the forum, not "steams my clams" one.

Are you aware that in the US about half of the scientists and engineers are employed either directly or indirectly by the Military industrial complex. they design and make the WMDs, survellaince systems, military hardware etc.

every person's actions are a matter for their own conscience and set of moral and ethical standards. They can run away to their cosey warm homes and be nice to their children, but what they have left behind at the place of work is partly their doing.

"I was told or paid to do this job" doesn't hold for assassins when they carry out their masters plans to murder. In fact both assassin and planner are treated in the same manner in a court of law and almost always receive the same penalty.

Let us just recognise that a rifle can be used to protect yourself and your family from a hungry bear when camping, but it can also be used to slaughter randomly at a shopping mall or school.

this is one of the major problems in the science and engineering profession - there is a clear demarcation and disconnect between what products and services are produced and their effects on individuals and society. the illicit drug trade works in the same manner. the growers of the poppy fields and the small time Ice and Meth labs are run by people just trying to feed their families right? - nothing to do with them, just trying to get ahead

[bojan]

Peter, all that you said is mostly true in one way or another.. but this discussion really doesn't belong to this particular thread.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Peter, all that you said is mostly true in one way or another.. but this discussion really doesn't belong to this particular thread.

that's true as well.

but there haven't been too many dinner parties where the discussions were restricted to monotonous topics that never deviated into other areas.

And this place is one huge dinner party with lots of guests, drinks, hors d'oeuvres, pastries, wine, chilled beer, cheese platters, those small hot party pies, oysters, pizza, caviar, twisties and telescopes.

[xelasnave]

Peter are you saying there is something wrong with the way the world works?
I blame the family unit.
The need to provide shelter, food, clothing, education, beer and toys for the family unit has folk doing whatever they can to see food on the table and the mortgage or rent paid.
Under such pressure who amongst us is beyond corruption if the choice comes down to saving your family or contributing to the possible death of others, strangers, outlaws, the enemy, or fools that deserve what they get.
Sad but those are the cards a lot of folk have to play.
If you can change that we would love to hear but unless you can change the world I for one don't want to be reminded of the way it works.
I am OK and although I recognise the world is not perfect I come here to forget that sad reality.
We are reasonably intelligent here and I suspect we each could make a list of real problems that need fixing but I for one am smart enough to realise things won't change in a hurry.
But change for the better does happen.
Alex

[bojan]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

....
Under such pressure who amongst us is beyond corruption ...
Alex

Peter is, apparently.

[Dave2042 (Dave)]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

indeed, the LIGO researchers would tap on the long testing tunnel producing "false" readings and then document the false data in sealed envelopes. When a potential candidate for a gravitational wave signal was detected by the LIGO team, they would first check the list of false or fake data.

In fact the first "genuine" LIGO gravitational wave signal in September 2015 was recorded during routine commissioning runs scheduled a few days before the official opening of the research centre. The detector was allowed to run throughout the night and when scientists returned at about 5AM there was a glaring signal in front of them. Their First response was to check who the smart arse was that was hitting the detector with a hammer. On this occasion they couldnt find any paper work nor anyone putting their hand up.

In Society Physicists make the best liars and criminals by far (one only needs to look at the obscene and immoral slaughter of civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WWII to understand how evil this profession can get). Their level of perpetuated and disseminated deceit is unparalleled in the known visible and non-visible universe as we know it and in any realm that you care to recognise or depict using crayons. (only about 2.3% of my friends and acquaintances are qualified Physicists - a state of affairs that is currently being dealt with by my legal team so I cannot comment any further at this moment in time - but in the fullness of time I may be able to shed additional photons upon this matter so that the general public can be made aware of this serious and potentially destructive social issue)

cheers

Peter can you give it a rest for a bit. It's really getting boring.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Peter is, apparently.

where on earth did you get that impression? I live in the same swamp. I have never pretended to hover over the excrement and stench like a fluttering butter mist boutique.....

It's our mess - some contribute more than others

but as we all know, new growth can flourish in the decaying pit of stench

....difficult to set up a HEQ8 tripod, run cables and keep the wafting condensate off the primary but nevertheless a pit that can provide a solid foundation for future growth

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by Dave2042

Peter can you give it a rest for a bit. It's really getting boring.

But you haven't responded to my comments on the "false readings" technique used at the LIGO facility. It relates directly to your OP.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Peter are you saying there is something wrong with the way the world works?
I blame the family unit.
change for the better does happen.
Alex

There is absolutely nothing wrong with how the world works today - total perfection and sublime fairness for every person. A supreme example of love, justice, democracy and freedom as defined by Hollywood.

There is certainly no way that anybody can improve any aspect of human existence in the world today.

Lets face it, we cant even make a decent telescope these days for under $470, let alone a quality $35 lens - what hope do we have tackling serious issues plaguing the world?

[xelasnave]

I dislike so many things Peter and I bet my list would be longer than most folks because I am basically a perfectionist however I like most folk create my own universe insulated from reality.
It works so well for me I would recommend you build one similar.
All we have is our ability to be happy.
Alex

[rally]

Hey Dave,

I enjoyed the article and read a bit further - thanks for bringing it to our notice.
Sounds like the LHC guys need to introduce some of the same processes !

Rally

[xelasnave]

Thanks Dave I have been driving all day and just got in so I can now look at the link.
Thanks and sorry for my nonsence.
Alex

[Dave2042 (Dave)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Thanks Dave I have been driving all day and just got in so I can now look at the link.
Thanks and sorry for my nonsence.
Alex

Glad you like it and no apology necessary. We have some different views but that's fine.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I dislike so many things Peter and I bet my list would be longer than most folks because I am basically a perfectionist however I like most folk create my own universe insulated from reality.
It works so well for me I would recommend you build one similar.
All we have is our ability to be happy.
Alex

a perfectionist with a wild beard

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

a perfectionist with a wild beard

The beard is part of my management strategy.
Happily my unreasonable expectations that everything should be perfect is not a problem these days.
So I can tolerate the world, humans and situations that should not happen if someone just did their job right and did not pretend to competent when clearly they would have trouble tieing their shoelaces if indeed they were allowed to have such dangerous objects.
I fell asleep and only now have read the article and enjoyed it.
Alex

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

So I can tolerate the world, humans and situations that should not happen if someone just did their job right.....

an example of such a scenario would be?

[xelasnave]

I can not speak badly about the dead.
Alex