Different world...

[bobson (Bob)]

Why do right wing folk think the way they do
Why do left wing folk think the way they do
I will go further what are their fears and perceptions.
How do they see us and them
Why do they categorize
Alex

This philosopher wrote a book about it

The World as Will and Representation (WWR; German: Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung, WWV) is the central work of the German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer.

BTW Bertrand Russell was great man, you can find a lot videos on YouTube about him.

Cheers

Bob

[xelasnave]

Yes Bob and we thank him.(I think him) Schopenhauer for..."The world is my representation."

I think folk miss the opportunity of the application of those famous words.

My simplistic application is "things just are they become only defined by our personal qualification and so we judge and define a situation as either right or wrong and of course our qualification is guided by our experience and exposure which invariably will be limited ....

And so " the world is my representation"...like the great man said all those years ago.

My questions above when asked have folk answering from one side or the other but most often as...."they ( insert right left or whoever is to be considered if in opposition to the questioners held position,) are stupid, evil morons etc...

I like to try and understand others views without judgement.

Why does a right wing person seem anti socialism...often it is because they did it tuff and having succeeded form the belief success is the reward of hard work and as they succeeded everyone should work hard and succeed.. They did it why not everyone... No one overlooked inequity for them so they won't extend what they missed out upon.

And here there is no need for judgement merely observation.

And wealthy offspring will believe similar ( in most cases although many wealthy offspring revolt ...but let's keep this as simple as possible and accept for a moment the generalisation and focus upon the effort to understand influences upon belief.

And say left wing...Is it unreasonable to expect someone who tries but is denied, whilst witness to social and economic injustice, not to form a belief that things are not fair and society should not cast aside those who for whatever reason must endure disadvantage.

And ironically there are many on the right who will be kind and charitable whilst proclaiming their harse economic ethic just as there are those on the left who proclaim social justice whilst capitalising on the plight of those they claim to champion.

And add humans tribal nature it is easy to see why once one chooses a side one stays loyal and will not admit to any failing of their chosen position.

And once in position neither side can move to a legitimate understanding of the legitimate motives of their opposition..

But I maintain my questions are valid and useful if one can ask them of either side without forming their opinion before the first question.

There are so few tolerant folk.

But hate is easy for leaders to capitalise upon..us and them...they are different..hippies, rednecks, suits, blue collars, public servants etc feel free to add to the list...so often terms used to generate us and them...and hate.


I refuse to be put in a box..Folk see my beard and want to put me in the hippy box...what fools my philosophy is definitely not hippy, nor is it right or left.

The utube is a place that contains multiple universes...if you want be left or right religious or atheist you can surround yourself with visual confirmation that your identity is the correct one...that the way it is...no surprises there (for me).
You can have everything to fit from politics to humour...

Alex

[xelasnave]

Hi Brenton
I reread your op.
I miss what point it is that you think you present.
I did the first time as well.
Perhaps this explains my inability to focus upon an issue and resort to padding whilst waiting for meaning to emerge.
What is it you see and would like us to comment upon.
Are you pointing to one side being ethical and the other not so.
I just see political conflict I am interested to understand what it is that you see.


Alex

[dbowie (Brenton)]

Alex, I have never really thought that hard about where I stood in the whole Left Center Right thingy and to be honest Im still not convinced I need to be. As a primer I left it open ended intentionally so as not to put forward or project my view upon any one given issue, I provided a sampling of channels covering subjects like immigration, feminism, religion, media manipulation, new world order and normal peoples everyday struggles impacted by these and other situations, some Aussie view some World view. The strange and sometimes bizarre interaction between individuals and groups and how they either choose dialogue or refuse opposing platforms with silence or hostility and how debates/ arguments are augmented or justified with either fact, fantasy, emotion or a mix of all. I wasn't actually trying to determine the philosophical or psychological standpoint but It definitely is an interesting and valid segue. Also the terminology and new wording/ rebranding had me Bing search on many occasions...I invited discussion tentatively..that was the point...

[Astrophe (John)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Hi John
What nerve did Wavy hit?
Your response seems over the top. Have you had a bad day?
Alex

Hello Alex.

As it happens, I had a very enjoyable day, yesterday.....I guess it's just that I don't like being lectured by those who believe that didactic statements are a substitute for real argument. IMHO Wavy needed a good kick in the you know where, so he got one. If I overstepped the mark (forum rules), then I apologise. My comment certainly wasn't aimed at you, Alex.

[xelasnave]

Good Morning Brenton
Thank you for explaining things for me.
Well for my part, although you provide a wide choice, there is nothing I wish to comment upon.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

Hello Alex.

As it happens, I had a very enjoyable day, yesterday.....I guess it's just that I don't like being lectured by those who believe that didactic statements are a substitute for real argument. IMHO Wavy needed a good kick in the you know where, so he got one. If I overstepped the mark (forum rules), then I apologise. My comment certainly wasn't aimed at you, Alex.

Thank you for your reply.
I am happy you had a good day.
I wasn't suggesting you broke site rules and note I said I thought your response to Wavy was over the top.
By that I suppose I mean a more measured reply would not only been more polite but perhaps more effective.
And although not aimed at me unfortunately I felt driven to say something that may have caused you to discuss things in the future such that it would assure me , that you were indeed having a good day.

The reason the moderators often let us bend the rules is probably because discussion is usually friendly. Any hint of a potential fight see the thread removed.

My belief is one can argue and remain pleasant.

Thank you again.
Alex

[ZeroID (Brent)]

Read ' No is not enough' Naomi Klein ...

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by ZeroID

Read ' No is not enough' Naomi Klein ...

What is her message Brent I can't see myself finding and reading the book..
.
Alex

[xelasnave]

I have read some stuff sufficient to make me think I now know her message.

I think diffently.
Engaging Trump via her suggestion plays the games as he wants it played.
Whilst the confusion rains I suspect he is left to promote his agenda.

Alex

[Astrophe (John)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Thank you for your reply.
I am happy you had a good day.
I wasn't suggesting you broke site rules and note I said I thought your response to Wavy was over the top.
By that I suppose I mean a more measured reply would not only been more polite but perhaps more effective.
And although not aimed at me unfortunately I felt driven to say something that may have caused you to discuss things in the future such that it would assure me , that you were indeed having a good day.

The reason the moderators often let us bend the rules is probably because discussion is usually friendly. Any hint of a potential fight see the thread removed.

My belief is one can argue and remain pleasant.

Thank you again.
Alex

Alex, I responded in kind to the post in question. It was my view....I got the vibe....that Wavy was trying to be too smart by half. If you wish to be a Mod, then perhaps you should apply. Cheers.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by Tropo-Bob

The one "correct" view may still be corrupted by one's belief.

I found an interesting article that claims such behaviour, to quote:

...

To see the full article, view:- http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...ou-innumerate/

A fascinating article - thanks for bringing this to my attention!

For what it's worth, I got the correct answer on the first version of the test - but that's a "non-political" version (unless you're a lobbyist for - or against - the pharmaceutical / snake-oil industry!)

It would be interesting to see how I would have done if I was presented with "Version D" (which indicates that Gun Control does not work)? Would my numeracy outweigh my socio-political views? Hard to say - because of course, you can't "un-learn" the right answer to this test, once you've seen it.

[julianh72 (Julian)]

Originally Posted by bobson

This philosopher wrote a book about it

The World as Will and Representation (WWR; German: Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung, WWV) is the central work of the German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer.

BTW Bertrand Russell was great man, you can find a lot videos on YouTube about him.

Cheers

Bob

Aah, yes, Schopenhauer!

MRS. HENDY: Oh! I never knew Schopenhauer was a philosopher!
MR. HENDY: Oh, yeah! He's the one that begins with an 'S'.
MRS. HENDY: Oh.
MR. HENDY: Umm, like, uh, 'Nietzsche'.
MRS. HENDY: Does 'Nietzsche' begin with an 'S'?
MR. HENDY: Uh, there's an 's' in 'Nietzsche'.
MRS. HENDY: Oh, wow. Yes, there is. Do all philosophers have an 's' in them?
MR. HENDY: Uh, yeah! I think most of 'em do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa0bCzwSNA0

And if you want to watch a really good YouTube video about Philosophers, there's always this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNBy1D1Y0h4

[dbowie (Brenton)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Good Morning Brenton
Thank you for explaining things for me.
Well for my part, although you provide a wide choice, there is nothing I wish to comment upon.
Alex

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I have read some stuff sufficient to make me think I now know her message.

I think diffently.
Engaging Trump via her suggestion plays the games as he wants it played.
Whilst the confusion rains I suspect he is left to promote his agenda.

Alex

Alex Im not trying to be overly judgemental and please dont take this the wrong way, I welcome your input as the thread evolves and with respect to your choices and opinions firstly you say you don't wish to comment on any of the subjects I have presented and then you do, namely feminism, Trump and the politics of both....

[dbowie (Brenton)]

Quote: Alex

The reason the moderators often let us bend the rules is probably because discussion is usually friendly. Any hint of a potential fight see the thread removed.

I have spectated and been involved in a few inflamed topics and have yet to see intervention by the moderators in any way other than to let the thread resolve, I think they trust that we can play well together which makes them good moderators and this a good forum...

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Astrophe

Alex, I responded in kind to the post in question. It was my view....I got the vibe....that Wavy was trying to be too smart by half. If you wish to be a Mod, then perhaps you should apply. Cheers.

I read your post again and Wavy's following post.
I missed the "vibe" as you called it.

Are you a philosoper and disliked his negative reference to the irrelevance of philosophy as a general proposition, I wonder.

I could not then see what fired you up and after reading both posts again fail to see the vibe you say you felt...

And I liked you post and would have pushed a like button if available.

I fail to see why you think Wavy was being too smart by half.

He was as I read it proclaiming the value of scientific method which arguably is the best thing we as humans have going for us.

Without the scientific method how can we crawl out of the superstition that in the past governed the way we observed the world.

Our discussion re Popper to my mind and at least for those of us who refreshed in our minds as to what he describes as science and what he said only has Wavy off slightly on one point , that science does not proclaim truth as such. ...but it certainly takes us very close to understanding how the world works with a clarity such that a layman would proclaim that indeed it shows us the truth.
Science remains humble and does not make that claim but let's face it science is accurate and exact.

Anyways I remain mystified what was this vibe you responsed to...

And what prompted you to suggest I apply to be a mod I don't get it.

I did not quote rules at you or express any interest in being a mod..you seem to have had another vibe, well that vibe did not serve you well..and to be clear I am not interested in such a job.

I asked what got you going is all so can you be specific and tell me what you decided to read between the lines.

Wavy impresses me as a man who clearly says what he means and has not ever left me with an impression that he is having a dig or holding back or weaving in a hidden meaning to his post.

Best wishes
Alex

[dbowie (Brenton)]

Quote: Alex..
As appealing as your proposal would appear we probably break the rules. No politics.

Quote: Alex..
Well proceed.
Perhaps present an opinion or observation and in so doing set the mood.

Quote: Alex..
That's not allowed either.
Alex

Alex, Im going to back out now and spectate hopefully the thread will evolve as intended without steerage. I feel like you are intentionally trying to hijack the thread by directing me on my next post being selectively blasé, passing judgement on contributors then apologetically explaining, therefore seesawing potential conflict ...If you have a point to make do so...Given this if you ever did become a moderator I would cease to contribute..

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by dbowie

Quote: Alex..
As appealing as your proposal would appear we probably break the rules. No politics.

Quote: Alex..
Well proceed.
Perhaps present an opinion or observation and in so doing set the mood.

Quote: Alex..
That's not allowed either.
Alex

Alex, Im going to back out now and spectate hopefully the thread will evolve as intended without steerage. I feel like you are intentionally trying to hijack the thread by directing me on my next post being selectively blasé, passing judgement on contributors then apologetically explaining, therefore seesawing potential conflict ...If you have a point to make do so...Given this if you ever did become a moderator I would cease to contribute..

Well you should know from your observations here over the years before we have a political discussion someone may say...its against the rules...and then we proceed to discuss politics..

And true I encouraged you to make a point rather supportive I feel.

As to "that's not allowed either" I felt was humour and even if a poor attempt I would have thought you would recognise it a such.

Hyjack your thread.???.do you really believe if someone wishes to say something I somehow prevent them?

You present a very wide topic and offer no view and then say its my fault...are you serious or just trying to keep me biting...


Seriously I assure you I am not trying to hijack your thread...
Me make some point???
Make some point...read my posts and make a list.
Be specific if you want want a discussion...

I don't want to be a moderator but I guess what you are saying is that I have got under your skin and for whatever reason represent all that is wrong with the world...You obviously don't like me but seriously you would not contribute if I was a moderator???
Why because I am unfair? Why on Earth should you feel so ...whatever..by an old man like me.
I don't get it.

Look carry on.
I don't have a problem with you at all, I have made no judgement and apologised the very instant I perceived I had upset you...I am not out to upset you.

And as to my apology you say that is a tool I employ to make things ...what did you say.. See Saw.

I am surprised you have such problems with me...I have never said I am perfect ..Nor have I said I was wise...if you notice my comments about myself over my time here have been that I am a mug and not that smart. And I am not smart I recognise that .no big deal.

I must remind you of someone that you have had a problem with in the past maybe ..your little comments in your deleted post, did you delete it?.brushed with a focus on personal things absolutely irrelevant to any argument or discussion.

Look I don't wish to be the cause of your anguish but will close in saying I do like you, you seem very intelligent but please try not to get so upset.

I am me you are you we have differences..well I assume this because I don't know you and remember that you don't know me...that is not a big deal.

And if I sound as if I am talking down to you remember I am not.

You have a good day sincerely
Alex

[xelasnave]

Give me a while to edit some minor points above

[xelasnave]

Well my observation is the left are so obsessed with Trump and his failings they are indulging in running around in circles drubbing with hate when surely it would be best to ignore the personality of Trump and focus on offering policies ready for the next election.
Trump loves attention, he loves being outrageous and yet the left feed him by taking him seriously.
Why get upset by his tweets...
Focus on asking why he is not building the wall, why he is not coming good on the promises to his people ...there is no point preaching to the converted the lefts strategy should be causing his follows to reject him...but the way its going the left will be flat footed come by he next election.
All they have to do is drive a wedge between Trump and the folk who supported him because of some promise.
I think the wall is crazy but every day I would be asking when do we get our wall.
Alex