Got scammed on IIS - Page 6

BeanerSA (Paul) · #**101** 15-02-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simmo

I belong to a motorcycle forum and they won't allow you to post a classified until you have a half decent amount of posts. I think it's like 30 or something. By that time you can pretty much work out if a member is genuine or not and it weeds out the jerks as they can't be stuffed posting that much.

I'm a member on OCAU and it's the same. You have to be a member for 90 days and make a few posts. That really sorts them out!

RB (Andrew) · #**102** 15-02-2016, 03:45 PM

Mike has set the rule for IIS ads to be: "a member for one month and 5 posts before you can post a Sale ad in IceTrades".

jenchris (Jennifer) · #**103** 15-02-2016, 03:52 PM

Astronomy forum is 50 posts.

iceman (Mike) · #**104** 16-02-2016, 04:41 AM

For new legitimate users, they hate waiting the 30 days and 5 posts. But they soon get over it and wait out their time.

Obviously it's frustrating when they want a quick sale etc.

It's also clear that it doesn't weed out ALL the unwanted types either. However the number of 'scams' compared to the number of successful transactions, is an absolutely tiny percentage.

Like I've always said - if you want to / or feel like you need to be extra cautious, get their phone number, get their address, ring them first etc.
Verify they're a real person and are who they say they are.

iceman (Mike) · #**105** 16-02-2016, 07:13 AM

I think it's timely to also remind everyone:

1. Do your research : as I mentioned above get real names / phone numbers
2. Call them back to make sure the number is real, email is real
3. If you're the seller, don't send anything without receiving money first

Also remember the IceTrade forum is not a witchhunt forum. Just because someone doesn't post photos straight away, or post all the info straight away, doesn't make them a scammer. It seems a few people are getting a bit "jumpy" and are too quick to over-react or point fingers.

Also remember that IceTrade is not a general chat forum. We allow replies from legitimate interested parties because it usually helps. But if you're not interested in the item, or aren't prepared to do the things outlined above, then don't reply or use that forum for chatter or for pointing out things the seller hasn't done.

yoda776 (Matt) · #**106** 17-02-2016, 06:54 AM

I have just had the same thing where someone responded to my celestron 6se ad currently. Got message from iceinspace but when i tried it says the personnis not accepting emails? Sounds dodgey to me. Have asked for messaging through iceinspace and they offered a hitmail address and now a mobile number.

I am inclined to think this a scam eepecially based on what has been mentioned. Also saw other 6se ad where a 0 post user was asking to buy theirs as well.

I also agree with selling on ebay and using paypal - they say they are there for the sellers bht it is so easy to scam people by saying they did not receive the item or it was faulty. I had that on ebay but requested a return before i refunded. Paypal very quickly freeze everything and found my item was fine. Glad i could get it back.

Thanks mike for all that you and the admins do. I dont think there is a magic answer except to be as vigilant as one can be, ask questions and if it does not feel right or seems too good to be true then dont buy or sell the item.

With my case with the celestron 6se unless the user proves to me they are legit i am not selling to them. Hotmail is a typical scam email address.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunama

If you cannot verify who you are trading with in the classifieds proceed with Caution

. A member posted a wanted ad here for an expensive item in January
. I contacted that member on behalf of a friend who had such an item to sell.
. The owner of this item wanted to know the name of the person interested in buying it.
. I contacted the IIS member to get his name and contact phone number
. All the member would give is a hotmail address but refused after several PMs to give his name or phone number
. I advised the owner of the item to not proceed as this was likely a scam
. The member joined within the last year and has minimal involvement and nothing in his posts to indicate who or where he is....

Do your homework and don't trust Paypal to give you money back.....
Morton was lucky that by acting quickly the funds were still there to be seized.

Another Paypal scam involves their 180day claim period, the buyer pays with Paypal and 179 days later lodges a claim that the goods are faulty or a part of the scope is missing..... guess who Paypal will side with.

I sold an item on eBay, the buyer paid immediately with Paypal, I sent the item Signature on Delivery, the item was signed for at the address I sent it to (Australia Post verified this) despite this the buyer lodged a claim that he had not received it and the funds were frozen in my account immediately, then, after several weeks PayPal sided with the buyer and I lost the item and the money.
I won't be dealing with PayPal anymore unless I know the person I am dealing with or can establish it is reputable business.

yoda776 (Matt) · #**107** 18-02-2016, 08:40 PM

Can you get scammed as a seller asking for bank deposit? Can they ask for their money back through the banking system? When I had that with a $4300 telescope I bought, I had no help from the banks as they said they could not help me. The police did not help and actually said the money amount was enough to really pursue! I have a situation I am not all that comfortable with but if bank deposit it seems feasible I will consider it. My concern is people's posts with paypal as I have had similar where they lock you out after sending an item and keep the money and award it to the buyer when they have done a dodgey. I wish to insure and register it. Has any one else dealt with this situation? Should I do it?

casstony · #**108** 18-02-2016, 09:05 PM

I was told by my bank that once I send a bank deposit to another person the money belongs to them, even if I sent the payment to the wrong account by mistake. The bank cant automatically get the money back, they have to request it back.

dreamstation (James) · #**109** 18-02-2016, 09:29 PM

Has IIS ever had or considered a reputation system or another way of giving another member positive/negative feedback which is viewable by the other members?

I've had some great experiences buying from fellow members and it feels like that information should be passed on to the community, but there's no way of doing so outside of making a new thread every time a transaction is completed.

A suggestion would be to have a master feedback thread that everyone can post in when they have a pleasant transaction. Eventually it will be tedious searching through every page looking for someone's name to see if they are legit, but it has to be better than not sharing that information at all right?

Kunama · #**110** 19-02-2016, 07:22 AM

With regard to bank deposits, if the money is transferred to your account by the sender and is cleared (remember a cheque deposit is not cleared funds) by your bank , the money is yours and the transfer cannot be cancelled by the sender.

A transfer in error will not be reversed by the bank without your permission.

It is up to the buyer to decide if they trust a seller enough to transfer the money. Any trustworthy seller should be happy to be identifiable, that is to provide full contact details which can be verified. Hotmail and Facebook accounts are not sufficient in my mind.

This makes it very difficult for new people to break into the cycle as they don't have the 'credentials' of lots of prior posts, pictures of equipment they have bought or used etc.

The problem with threads of "trustworthy trading partners" is that it can backfire should something go awry in a transaction. My career background made me a little suspicious of dealings, as a result almost all of my purchases in the first year or two on IIS were face to face, even if it meant long drives. You can, however, look at the Forsale or Wanted ad and see that persons trading history and then click on these numbers to see the person's prior sales etc and send PMs to people to get some reference.

I find one of the biggest alarm bells is a new person, with very little other real involvement in the forum, suddenly posting in the Wanted or ForSale sections, trying to buy or sell very expensive items.
(You can always ask the seller if they are happy to meet up with someone you trust to inspect the goods)

I guess a workaround could be done by sending the item to a friend in the buyers area who is happy to have the buyer collect and pay with cash.
.......

yoda776 (Matt) · #**111** 19-02-2016, 08:34 AM

Good point, although the feedback needs to be linked back to the user it is about otherwise checking a list would be terribly onerous.

Ebay has this kind of system, however it has its good and bad points. Good you can see a history, but not so good if you have unreasonable people leaving feedback because they are miffed if Australia post or the courier did not follow any instructions or stuffed up.

There needs to be a solution which makes it harder for scammers but does not make it difficult for legit people ... sounds like we are asking for a perfect world which may not exist! Just wish there were not so many people out there willing to scam others - just is not right (yes there are many people out there that are fantastic as well - had some great transactions both buying and selling). I know I always ask a buyer to get back to me about receiving the item and get great feedback that way. Think one item I had way back the person identified an issue I was not aware of so we discussed and all he wanted was a partial refund for a simple fix and was happy to oblige or take the item back at my cost. Just did not know much about binos at the time and they were a cheap pair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamstation

Has IIS ever had or considered a reputation system or another way of giving another member positive/negative feedback which is viewable by the other members?

I've had some great experiences buying from fellow members and it feels like that information should be passed on to the community, but there's no way of doing so outside of making a new thread every time a transaction is completed.

A suggestion would be to have a master feedback thread that everyone can post in when they have a pleasant transaction. Eventually it will be tedious searching through every page looking for someone's name to see if they are legit, but it has to be better than not sharing that information at all right?

yoda776 (Matt) · #**112** 19-02-2016, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the advice and feedback. I will go ahead then and see how I go. Getting a quote for shipping from Pack and Send.

dreamstation (James) · #**113** 19-02-2016, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunama

The problem with threads of "trustworthy trading partners" is that it can backfire should something go awry in a transaction. My career background made me a little suspicious of dealings, as a result almost all of my purchases in the first year or two on IIS were face to face, even if it meant long drives. You can, however, look at the Forsale or Wanted ad and see that persons trading history and then click on these numbers to see the person's prior sales etc and send PMs to people to get some reference.

I was thinking more along the lines of a 'Trading Feedback' thread rather than a 'Trusted Traders' thread. This would serve as another tool to help individuals determine if a buyer or seller is legitimate much the same as checking their trading or post history or by asking for personal details such as phone numbers, names and addresses. None of these methods are 100% reliable. Having another tool to help can only be a good thing in my opinion.

Quote:

I find one of the biggest alarm bells is a new person, with very little other real involvement in the forum, suddenly posting in the Wanted or ForSale sections, trying to buy or sell very expensive items.

This is exactly why I'm saying something like this should exist. I haven't been here all that long and my involvement with the forum has been minimal so by your own standards there should be alarm bells ringing and trading with me should be avoided.

I've traded with many individuals here who I'm sure would be happy to say the transactions were positive experiences and I'd be happy to do the same. But how it is now, I'm just another relatively new member with little involvement that sets off alarm bells. That feedback doesn't get out there.

Kunama · #**114** 19-02-2016, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamstation

..................
This is exactly why I'm saying something like this should exist. I haven't been here all that long and my involvement with the forum has been minimal so by your own standards there should be alarm bells ringing and trading with me should be avoided.

.................... But how it is now, I'm just another relatively new member with little involvement that sets off alarm bells. That feedback doesn't get out there.

Not avoided but perhaps approached with more caution. There are already ways on the forum to check up on trading partners.
Lets say "James" listed an item for sale (lets say it was an Ethos) that I was interested in, first I would want to know who James is, so I would have a look at James in Profile, I would also search for Topics that he had posted to see if he had sold other items, if I was suspicious I might contact a prior trading partner of James and ask if he was OK do send money to....... (Hypothetically I might send a PM to a marine engineer in the west) and find that James is a good guy to deal with........

Do your homework people. These scams will get more prevalent in the future.....

Yes, I agree that it would be nice to have a system where people can display their trustworthiness, but a scammer can easily manipulate any such system......
After a few sales and purchases one builds up "Credibility" on this and any other forum...

dreamstation (James) · #**115** 20-02-2016, 09:41 PM

There are ways to check up but unfortunately not every sale has a paper trail. Even doing my own research on various sellers, they may have a lot of threads marked as 'SOLD' but often there are no replies in these threads so finding contact information on buyers is hard.

You are right in that scammers will find ways around any method employed to stop them. Unfortunately it's going to happen from time to time, we just have to be vigilant and do our research beforehand to minimise that risk. That's all I was attempting to say, and I think having as many tools at our disposal to do this only benefits the members further.

andy47ca (Andrew) · #**116** 22-02-2016, 01:29 PM

A suggestion.
Perhaps at least those of us who use the classifieds regulary should adopt the principle of putting a final post in ad for an item that has been sold, identifying the person who it was sold to by their userid. Then there is some sort of trail that can be followed. I, like most here transact a sale by PM because I don't want all the transaction negotiations, particularly bank details, to be advertised to all and sundry.
Cheers,
Andrew.

csb (Craig) · #**117** 22-02-2016, 10:17 PM

I think a final post with buyer details is a good idea.

And it can be voluntarily so no real issues, I think

MortonH · #**118** 22-02-2016, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy47ca

A suggestion.
Perhaps at least those of us who use the classifieds regulary should adopt the principle of putting a final post in ad for an item that has been sold, identifying the person who it was sold to by their userid. Then there is some sort of trail that can be followed. I, like most here transact a sale by PM because I don't want all the transaction negotiations, particularly bank details, to be advertised to all and sundry.
Cheers,
Andrew.

Assumes the seller is ok being identified in a final post. They may have genuine reasons for dealing with the seller by PM only - like maybe their other half has started checking the IIS classifieds...

andy47ca (Andrew) · #**119** 23-02-2016, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MortonH

Assumes the seller is ok being identified in a final post. They may have genuine reasons for dealing with the seller by PM only - like maybe their other half has started checking the IIS classifieds...

Well, deception is what started this post. Not a desirable practice in any circumstances. I personally would prefer to deal with people on this forum who have nothing to hide.

MortonH · #**120** 23-02-2016, 12:18 PM

OK, so I gave a frivolous reason but what I'm saying is that people are entitled to privacy. It someone chooses not to advertise their purchases by replying in the thread then I don't think the seller should be "outing" them on completion of the sale.

Not saying this is ideal, or even what should happen, just food for thought in this debate.