I have salvaged a webcam from a Samsung laptop. Research has shown it to use a standard USB 2.0 interface and drivers are still available. Has anyone else devised a way to use a camera like this for taking video? There was a little magnification in the glass covering the camera, would this be something I would need to compensate for, or will the focuser do that for me?
So many questions, but the big one first... can this be done and has anyone done it?
Hi Kevin, getting all experimental eh ? A good sign around here.. Welcome
Probably just easier to buy a proper webcam with it's associated drivers etc. The laptop webcams are small and not big on resolution and the lens and short focal length are marginal at best. Drivers will be specific for the laptop mostly with limited control for gain and exposure. Physically not easy to play with either.
They are getting a bit old now but the Phillips SPC900 was heavily used before by experimenters as it was relatively easy to modify and had a decent sensor. Others have attacked the MS Lifecams.
If you just want to try a webcam out any cheapo unit that can be physically hacked around and fitted to a scope is usable and there is free software like SharpCap or Am Cam and others that will let you do moon video and stacking. Moon is a good place to start, big bright and some detail to be resolved. You don't even have to track too accurately, movement is expected.
I did daylight tests first to find focus and some settings. My First 'webcam' was just the board from one hacked into a plastic film can which just happens to be the right size for the focusser EP hole.
Now go and play with it all, if you try the laptop cam let us know how it goes.
EDIT: Magnification will be set by the focal length of the scope, chuck the laptop lens away. Prime focus is the story.
Great info to start off with. "Easy" is a foreign word to me, I love the challenge. Hate the failed attempts, but have always been a tinkerer.
I have since found that the module is self-contained and that the USB chip supports what is called UVC (USB video class), which in turn, has native support in WIN7 and newer, and Linux.
I haven't been able to identify the sensor itself and whether or not it needs to be "initialized" but based on the USB chip datasheet, should at least shoot out an image of some kind by default. Output will be VGA 640x480 maximum, 30fps. The laptop specs say it is 3 MP, CMOS.
I am hoping worst case, if not available in the native support, the generic driver will give me some limited control.
I hope the hardest part is adapting to the focuser tube.
I'm hoping to be a little more precise... I trashed the 20mm erecting EP that came with my f5 newt, wanted to see how it was put together and such. It still works but it was never really usable for anything other than finding targets. That should work quite well and is long enough to fuss with the mounting distance.
If all goes well, I'll hope to have something before Christmas.
Yeh, I've used some trash EPs I've acquired for optics parts, extenders etc. The 35mm Film can does work well though, perfect fit in a focusser. Although I now have a small lathe and a source for thick walled alum tube which gives me some other options.
I also have a small hobby lathe, and like my knowledge of astronomy , I have the very basic skills, I know where the off button is .
I haven't seen a 35mm film canister for over a decade, when I was sorting through my father's estate. He had a Pentax camera with all kinds of unusual items. I still have the camera, but have long since disposed of any canisters. I guess I could start a new hobby in terrestrial photography to supply my astronomical hobby with parts .
Have decided to take an old USB hub and salvage one of the connectors so I can get rid of the integrated laptop cable. Wires very small, 28 or 30 gauge, making them a bit tough to work with.
I'm guessing that centring the sensor is probably not a super critical thing, and +/- 1.0mm should be accurate enough? Making sure it is flat on the focal plane would be the more critical aspect?
Be nice to keep it as close to the optical axis as possible. Coma and other abberations otherwise. Flat to the focal plane is very critical, focal depth can be quite tiny.
Can you chop off an old mouse USB lead and solder to the PCB anywhere ?
The PCB's connector is very small, only 3 mm long, spans the width of the PCB, and 1mm deep. I am going to cut the hub PCB with a 1cm "tongue" and epoxy the webcam PCB to it, to provide extra support. Then jumper the pins. This also makes it easier to shield. This arrangement will make it more modular as well, I can use standard USB cables.
I got plenty of old laptops at work we're scrapping, must chop one open and have a look at the camera hardware. If you 'cook' yours accidentally let me know and I can do a bit more scrapping and flick one or two over.
Keep us posted.
I'll keep that in mind, as long as they are less than 5 years old, they should be self contained like this one.
Here's a couple of progress photos... have removed the little lens cover and you can see the USB chip (Vimicro VCO363) and the CMOS sensor (I was mistaken, it is only 1.3MP) and how the project is going together.
My plan is to find a black tube large enough in diameter to slide the sensor section into (more support) and cut out a section for the sensor to see through. This will all then slide into hoel drilled in the side of the EP body. I can the align both focal plane and centre (provided I get the hole through the EP body in the right place :-) ). Then epoxy it in place.
Should be able to perform a functional test tomorrow night once I finish the connections. That will then determine if I need more test subjects...
After some dyslexic issues with USB pin layouts... reversed power leads, I finally managed to get the device recognized by my computer. However, could not get an image from it using several video capture applications. Skype would report the camera is there but when selected, would say cannot find device, very frustrating.
But even more frustrating is the fact that while experimenting with different drivers to see if it was an interface issue, I have stuffed my desktop . Surprisingly, it wasn't the installation of the various drivers I tried but the attempt to restore my environment back to when I started. It would appear that some aspect of the restore process didn't work right because now all it does is start up the Win10 splash page for 30 seconds or so, and then the HD runs for about 3 minutes with a blank screen. Very strange behavior... it doesn't matter if I try to boot from a CD or USB recovery, it runs the same sequence . I'm wondering if there was some kind of interaction between the bios and Windows 10 at install that prevents booting from external sources. The worst case scenario is that I have had a coincidental equipment failure, the computer is over 5 years old and is very rarely turned off. The OS has been rebuilt 5 or 6 times using various versions of Windows. It is an "All-in-One" machine, which makes for a less than desirable situation for dis-assembly.
Needless to say I'm hesitant to commit another computer even though I have several laptops. I'll update again when I have more information but suspect that it may be awhile so the thread may fall into dormancy. In the meantime I have one last idea... F8 while booting to see if the hook is still there in Windows, I had forgotten about that one until just now.
How about doing a Start Repair ?
Boot from a OS disk but select Repair instead of install. Could just be the boot files are corrupted. I've saved a few systems (and lot of rebuild time and lost files ) that way.
At the time I couldn't get the machine to boot to anything external. It would just go blank and sit there humming to itself.
The F8 hook is still there which did give the option to "repair". If I had remembered how many "manual" driver upgrades I had done to rebuild last time I might have chosen a different option. None the less, I am on the road to recovery. I no longer regret moving to syncing to the "cloud", and keeping backups on Google drive and One drive.
So to keep the thread on topic, I will be again attacking the webcam project after Christmas, when I have had a chance to calm down a bit and think through my problem. I'm thinking the drivers are not Win10 compatible even in 32 bit x86 mode. Have a Win7 laptop that might get thrown to the wolves . I also might try one of my Linux laptops, easier to rebuild if it gets stuffed.
Well, I have determined that something is missing, but I don't rightly know what. Since I am not a programmer, I'm at a disadvantage. But this is what i think might be happening.
I can get the device to be recognized as a webcam on a USB port, but cannot seem to get any application to recognize how to use it. I tried 3 different driver configurations and 3 different applications. Also tried Linux (Ubuntu).
I suspect that there is an intermediate piece of firmware or software that interprets for the basic chip set, and beyond my meager capabilities to get working. I may yet get in touch with the chip manufacturer and see what info they are willing to share, but for now, this goes into the "not important" pile of projects, and I move onto seeing if I can build a cheaper, homemade solution, to motorizing my focuser and declination axis on my Celestron C8 and wedge mount.
Welcome 
Brent,
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. Surprisingly, it wasn't the installation of the various drivers I tried but the attempt to restore my environment back to when I started. It would appear that some aspect of the restore process didn't work right because now all it does is start up the Win10 splash page for 30 seconds or so, and then the HD runs for about 3 minutes with a blank screen. Very strange behavior... it doesn't matter if I try to boot from a CD or USB recovery, it runs the same sequence 
. I'm wondering if there was some kind of interaction between the bios and Windows 10 at install that prevents booting from external sources. The worst case scenario is that I have had a coincidental equipment failure, the computer is over 5 years old and is very rarely turned off. The OS has been rebuilt 5 or 6 times using various versions of Windows. It is an "All-in-One" machine, which makes for a less than desirable situation for dis-assembly.
