1st night with EQ6- not so good

[DJDD]

Hi all,

thanks for everyone's help.
And, yes, once i locked down the levers my mount worked MUCH better.

now I just have to align better. I have made an alignment jig based upon Trevor Hand's project in Projects & Articles (http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-499-0-0-1-0.html ) and am looking forward to trying it. The alignment from the jig looks quite different to the rough alignment i performed last week.


cheers,
DJDD

[rider]

My goto accuracy went up by a huge factor when I began centering the FIRST alignment star manually with the latitude and AZ controls.

If the mount is very well leveled then the effect is like a "perfect" polar alignment.

rider

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by rider

My goto accuracy went up by a huge factor when I began centering the FIRST alignment star manually with the latitude and AZ controls.

If the mount is very well leveled then the effect is like a "perfect" polar alignment.

rider

thanks, rider.
i believe it will be clear skies in Melbourne tonight so...
(there should be a "fingers corssed" smiley)

[Tandum (Robin)]

I normally change the slew rate when doing an alignment and use the arrow keys to line it up. I find a rate of 5 is a good speed for the finderscope and 2 is good for an eyepiece. Press RATE then 5 then ENTER on the controller to change speed to 5. Then rate,2,enter to change it back to 2. It goes to 9.

Some times it doesn't stop when I release the arrow keys. Changing rate stops it and it appears to happen sometimes when pressing 2 arrow keys at the same time.

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by Tandum

I normally change the slew rate when doing an alignment and use the arrow keys to line it up. I find a rate of 5 is a good speed for the finderscope and 2 is good for an eyepiece. Press RATE then 5 then ENTER on the controller to change speed to 5. Then rate,2,enter to change it back to 2. It goes to 9.

Some times it doesn't stop when I release the arrow keys. Changing rate stops it and it appears to happen sometimes when pressing 2 arrow keys at the same time.

thanks, tandum, for the suggested settings.

i found the slew rate setting- i tried 9, which is pretty quick! It is a pity the slew rate is not stored between sessions.
it seems that only some settings are saved between sessions, e.g the date.

[DJDD]

keeping it in this thread...
Sorry to seem like a complete duffer. I like to think i am slightly smarter than an oyster!


Still having problems aligning and GOTO so would like to check a few settings with others.

1. TimeZone = +11:00 or +10:00 ?
I am in Melbourne.

2. Time = time on my mobile phone, which is set by Telstra and is correct

3. Daylight Savings = YES

4. Location = from GPS reading so should be fine

5. rough South-facing alignment = I used a jig set pretty close to 12 degrees west, which means when I set up it shifts the mount easterly.

6. Level = the mount is pretty close to level but not exactly. How much of a difference does that make?

- I have tried 1-star, 2-star and 3-star alignments.
- I can only easily see Canopus, Sirius, Rigel and Achenar early in the evening
- later in the evening I can see Acrux, Alpha Cen, and Fomalhaut i think
Damn Southland!

7. Latitude setting = about 38 degrees from vertical. i measured with a protractor and it seemed pretty close


So, early in the evening I tried:
- 1-star alignment on Canopus, then tried Rigel. Canopus seemed pretty close (minimal slewing to find it) but Rigel was way off. Needless to say, after 1-star alignment I found nothing with GOTO...

- 2-star align on Canopus and Achenar. The mount seems to be reasonably close to Canopus but Achenar is miles out (i think it is miles out) and must slew a lot to find it.

After alignment on these two stars I can go back and forth between them ok but then when I GOTO Rigel I find I am a LONG way off. Needless to say I cannot GOTO anything interesting after that.

- For 3-star alignment, well, I am not offered all of the stars I can see, which makes it difficult. I understand that i should have three widely spaced stars to align on, at least two on one side of the meridian and one on the other...

Note that I use the arrow keys to fine-tune the alignment rather than release the catches and move manually.


Are my alignment woes simply due to too rough a polar alignment?
Should I really get the mount level? A bit hard because my pavers are not level. So, more care required?

thanks in advance,
DJDD

[gmbfilter (Geoff)]

I think Melbourne is the same time zone as Sydney, +10:00, entering yes to daylight saving time should set everything correctly

[DJDD]

thanks.
actually, i have been using +10:00 but thought I was wrong so wrote +11:00. I will edit my post.

[gmbfilter (Geoff)]

Bugger, it would have been a simple fix, I know because I've done it
Maybe the mount is at fault?
Mine went back to Bintel (Syd) & Michael replaced handset and everything worked OK

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by gmbfilter

Bugger, it would have been a simple fix, I know because I've done it
Maybe the mount is at fault?
Mine went back to Bintel (Syd) & Michael replaced handset and everything worked OK

thanks. perhaps returning it is an option, although I would like to persevere for a bit longer. It is probably me!

cheers,
DJDD

[Zuts]

Hi,

In this case his mount does work. As he said he can actually do a 2 star alignment so i doubt there is anything wrong with it.

(1) 3 star alignment is best. The stars you say it offers which are not available probably are; they are just obscure and you may not have heard of them?

(2) Plonking the mount down on wobbly uneven pavers is asking for trouble. If you cant use the polar scope to get a 'rough' visual use only polar alignment you must at least spend 10 to 15 minutes doing a drift alignment. This will take into account and overcome any uneveness and/or deviation in the initial setup from true north. If you dont do this your goto's will be way way out.

(3) Since you will only be doing a rough drift alignment when you attempt a goto leave your lowest power largest FOV eyepiece in the scope. A 26mm 68 degree would be ideal. This gives you a better chance of finding the object in the initial FOV after a slew.

I spend 30 to 40 minutes minimum doing a drift alignment on my EQ6; for astro photography. After doing a 3 star alignment my gotos leave the desired object in the FOV of an 11mm eyepiece on a 600 ml FL scope.

Cheers
Paul

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by Zuts

Hi,

In this case his mount does work. As he said he can actually do a 2 star alignment so i doubt there is anything wrong with it.

(1) 3 star alignment is best. The stars you say it offers which are not available probably are; they are just obscure and you may not have heard of them?

(2) Plonking the mount down on wobbly uneven pavers is asking for trouble. If you cant use the polar scope to get a 'rough' visual use only polar alignment you must at least spend 10 to 15 minutes doing a drift alignment. This will take into account and overcome any uneveness and/or deviation in the initial setup from true north. If you dont do this your goto's will be way way out.

(3) Since you will only be doing a rough drift alignment when you attempt a goto leave your lowest power largest FOV eyepiece in the scope. A 26mm 68 degree would be ideal. This gives you a better chance of finding the object in the initial FOV after a slew.

I spend 30 to 40 minutes minimum doing a drift alignment on my EQ6; for astro photography. After doing a 3 star alignment my gotos leave the desired object in the FOV of an 11mm eyepiece on a 600 ml FL scope.

Cheers
Paul

Hi paul,

thanks for your reply, as well.

a few comments: i can do an alignment but Achenar and Rigel are way off the mark, and after aligning, on say Achenar and Canopus, then GOTO Rigel is not really possible.

Still that is probably related, as you say, to my poor set up.

- the pavers. they are not wobbly just uneven so it is a bit tricky to level but i should try harder.

- 3-star alignment- unfortunately there is a building right (West) beside the telescope's location. the better placed area in my backyard is above an ant hill! there are probably a few stars available in the SSW that i just need to find the names for. your comment has prompted me to look a bit harder.

- Alex gave me a good drift-alignment guide and there are a few others around as well, so...

You have given me much to look at on the next clear night.

cheers,
DJDD

[33South (Chris)]

This thread brings back memories, although I still find after doing an alignment occasionally the goto just does not work. Switch off and start again do everything the same (???http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/....milies/doh.gif) all OK.

Some mistakes I made,

1. Date entered in the wrong format must be mm/dd/yyyy
2. Mount not balanced well enough especially with the heavier C11
3. After the slew to each alignment star did not wait for the BEEP BEEP before using the keys to center the star.
4. Centering the star by eye was off center, got a 12mm with cross hairs for fine adjustments.

1 and 2 would give trouble getting anywhere near the alignment stars
3 and 4 would give an apparent successful alignment but any goto away from the alignment stars would be way off.

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by 33South

This thread brings back memories, although I still find after doing an alignment occasionally the goto just does not work. Switch off and start again do everything the same (???http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/....milies/doh.gif) all OK.

Some mistakes I made,

1. Date entered in the wrong format must be mm/dd/yyyy
2. Mount not balanced well enough especially with the heavier C11
3. After the slew to each alignment star did not wait for the BEEP BEEP before using the keys to center the star.
4. Centering the star by eye was off center, got a 12mm with cross hairs for fine adjustments.

1 and 2 would give trouble getting anywhere near the alignment stars
3 and 4 would give an apparent successful alignment but any goto away from the alignment stars would be way off.

thanks, 33South, for the reply.

i will check all you suggest. I was thinking about getting an eyepiece with crosshairs. I also found a CN thread that suggests defocussing the star to the edge of the view, which seems to make sense, as well.


Everyone's responses are pointing to my need to work harder on the alignment.

[rider]

yep, you do need crosshairs... badly. Centering accurately will improve things a lot.
You also DO need to level the mount accurately, - (alternatively, tip the sky over to match your scopes angle.. )

and

after successfully finishing an alignment, when you "goto" an object,
you should use a very low mag lens initially, to see a large FOV in-case the object is not fully centered.

clear skies...

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by rider

You also DO need to level the mount accurately, - (alternatively, tip the sky over to match your scopes angle.. )

thanks, rider.
i am looking at a vendor's site now for an eyepiece with crosshairs or perhaps an illuminated reticle eyepiece.

and i need to find another eyepiece, then, with a large FOV. I thought the
B___L FMC 26mm (2") or 30mm eyepiece wuld be an option.

cheers,
DJDD

[AlexN]

a 30mm is a great EP to have.. I use a 40 as my wide field in EP, and have a 12mm illuminated reticule... The illuminated reticule will have a dual duty, doing an accurate go-to alignments, and drift aligning the mount.

Get yourself a "Bulls Eye leveler" from Bunnings, mine cost $3.20, and is a GODSEND for leveling the mount. (DO NOT TRUST THE EQ6 BUILT IN BUBBLE LEVEL)

With all the great info in this thread you should be well on your way!
Cheers,
Alex.

[Kal (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by DJDD

7. Latitude setting = about 38 degrees from vertical. i measured with a protractor and it seemed pretty close

When you say "38 degrees from vertical" do you mean this literally? Technically, for someone from Melbourne, you will need to be (90-38), or 52 degrees from vertical.

Imagine it this way, if you are at the equator (0 degrees north or south) then the pole is exactlly 90 degrees away from vertical - basically pointing flat to the horizon. For every degree away from the equator you move, this changes by 1 degree.

You should be 38 degrees from horizontal.

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by AlexN

With all the great info in this thread you should be well on your way!
Cheers,
Alex.

Thanks, Alex.
At the end of all of this, i.e. when i get to use GOTO successfully, observe, and then even do some photography, I will write up the Idiot's Guide (with many acknowledgements) ...

Originally Posted by Kal

When you say "38 degrees from vertical" do you mean this literally? Technically, for someone from Melbourne, you will need to be (90-38), or 52 degrees from vertical.

Imagine it this way, if you are at the equator (0 degrees north or south) then the pole is exactlly 90 degrees away from vertical - basically pointing flat to the horizon. For every degree away from the equator you move, this changes by 1 degree.

You should be 38 degrees from horizontal.

thanks, Kal (Andrew)
i was working off the numbers (0-90), as well as a polar alignment guide in the Projects & Articles section showing the movement from the vertical. Of course, i have found another guide (from myastroshop) that has the 0 degrees on the horizontal and so the GEM is in fact set to 52 degrees from vertical, as you suggest.

I have to get my head around the geometry...



DJDD

[Stephen65]

DJDD

You don't need to be precise about the time, date etc provided the scope is properly aligned to the south celestrial pole.

Do a three star alignment and even if the first star is way off use the arrow keys to centre it. Then move to the second star, this is where you see if it's properly aligned because even if the mount was way off the first star it should now move accurately to the second because the movement from the first to the second is just a relative movement. Once you've shown the scope where the first star is it should be able to move to the second reasonably accurately.

I'm in Melbourne and I have an EQ6PRO plus refractor, if you're still having problems drop me a private message and I'm happy to arrange a meet either there or here.