Showing sky to 4 & 5 yr olds

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Hi all,

I've been 'commisioned' to bring a scope or two to show & tell a little about the sky at my daugther's preschool & my wife's school where she teaches, also the little'ies, .

My challenge is that I've never delt with such young people & I'm wondering if anyone might have ideas on how I can approach them with this topic. I'll also be asking the Missus, she is the expert with them, but the technicalities of Astronomy isn't her strong point, bless her soul.

At the moment, the timeing of these sessions will be during the morning or arvo, limiting viewings to the moon & sun. I'd only be doing eyepiece projection for the sun, & covering up the finder, and warn of looking at the sun by any means. Good idea or not, the sun?

Any astro reasources anyone may be able to suggest to illustrate the solar system & beyond? I've also been asked to give a little talk.

Mental.

[h0ughy (David)]

The thing you need to know is that you always need a backup plan just in case it is cloudy or it rains. Currently the sun is spotless and unless you have a Ha solar scope then you cannot show them surface details or prominences around the limb of the sun.

Mornings are good about a week after full moon for using the scope, but they would be just as happy looking through the scope to some distant ground based object.

Print our the solar system - one page per item and get the kids to role play as them, positioning them as a solar system model to get an idea of distance – at that age they really don’t grasp it but it can be fun.

Have some colourful images to show – perhaps a magazine or coffee table book to show some images. Try asking them what they know about space and stuff. Don’t roll around laughing as some of the parents have the same idea……

Take control and don’t for one minute think they will be totally focused on your topic, as the bug crawling of the bird or a boogie they are picking at the moment seems better than what you can offer. Make it interesting and keep engaging them in the talk as they have the attention span of a gnat.

Make sure you tell them never to look directly at the sun.

Oh and make up some simple colouring in sheets – even a dot to dot or a cut and paste.

If you take your scope remember a step ladder for them to hold on to and get to the eyepiece.

LOL and ask who wants to be an astronaut…..

ok rambled on here enough

[gman (Grant)]

I could try some of the following ideas:-

• Keep it to the solar system. (Get some pictures of the planets, southern cross etc and ask who knows there names etc? - show the Southern Cross on the flag)
• Get the teacher to stick the pictures on the wall so they can keep looking at them
• Ask questions on things like how long it takes for light to get to earth, how long it takes to go to the moon, what is the sun and moon made of? (let them all answer and then tell them the correct answer, dumbed down.etc
• Homework - Give them some written basic co-ordinates on seeing Jupiter or Venus etc at night etc so they can get there parents involved, (look for the brightest star in the east at a certain time)
• Bring up the 40 year aniverary of man walking on the moon

[AdrianF (Adrian)]

Just had the same thing here but on a smaller scale. One of the ladies I work with has a son in year 1 and they are doing the Solar System and constellations. I gave him a BBC Sky at Night calendar for show and tell and printed out pictures, for show and tell, off the internet of constellations he can see from here the Southern Cross etc. He went out that night and identified the constellations and also Jupiter and 3 of its moons, he borrowed Poppies binoculars now he wants Mum to buy him a pair for his birthday and he wants Mum to wake him up at 5am to see Orion and Plaides. Mum says "No way".
Another budding Astronomer.

Adrian

[renormalised (Carl)]

As the other have said...keep it simple and interesting.

If you're lucky (or unlucky as the case may be!!), you might get one, or at the off chance two, who maybe intelligent enough to understand you straight out and will come up to you and ask more pertinent questions. Don't be afraid to answer them and don't hold back with your answers. It's kids like these, who are gifted and extremely bright, who need all the encouragement you can give them. The school system tends to try and dumb them down at an early age and rarely caters to their needs as they grow older. We end up loosing them at an early age and they usually just give up on school or they just plod through and do what they need to get done in order to pass their HSC's. The highest scorers in the HSC are not necessarily the brightest or even the most gifted academically. They're just good at acquiring and accessing information and have good memories.

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

Pity you can't make it a twilight viewing.
They could see Saturn, the moon, Alpha Centauri and that big fuzzy ball of stars Omega Centauri.
These were all on the menu when my sister took her Kindy Kids to the Mapleton Observatory the other week.
She had a list of questions from the children that were answered before moving on to the scopes.
It was a pleasure to watch Paul (1Ponders) teach. I think that if you want some expert tips, give him a PM.
But the highlight for me was watching their faces light up as they had their first look through a telescope.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

One school will definately be during the day. The other may be a chance of a later session. If it goes well, chance it may grow to something bigger.

Jjj, I will PM Paul.

Thanks for the suggestions. Many very good ideas. Please keep them coming, these have fired up my imagination.

I'm quite excited about this challenge.

Mental.

P.S. congrats on the 6000 post milestone jjj.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Great post!! I work at Bunnings and offered to bring my scope for "Dad and kids night" prior to fathers day.

They said that was great, i'll get paid for the time there too. He he he, getting paid to watch the stars.... Brilliant!!

It's not the money though, I would do it regardless, apparently I need to be on the clock for insurance purposes, so no complaints here.

They told me afterwards that there is a group of 25 scouts coming also... better make sure I know what I'm talking about.... I'll make some notes to follow...


I am very interested to see how you go, good luck...

About the sun, the only thing I can say is that if you tell them not to look at the sun, they will do the opposite. Maybe explain how it can hurt your eyes, so they know your serious.

[batema (Mark)]

I'm a teacher and all of the above are great suggestions. If you do manage to get a twilight viewing session take along some pirate eyepatches as kids at this age may have problems closing one eye. I bought mine from the local chemist for a prep evening. Another suggestion about distances I had when I posted a similar question was to use a roll of toilet paper and roll it out to show the distances of the solar system. I havenot tried this one but the pirate eyepieces work a treat.

Have fun with this.

Mark

[seanliddelow (Sean)]

Dont explain binary stars! Thats to complicated to any newcomers to astronomy. There are astronomy websites for kids. You should just show them the planets and the moon. Every newby loves the moon

[seanliddelow (Sean)]

Do you have a solar telescope you can get a hold of?

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

I don't have a solar scope either myself or to get my paws on. I'd be only doing projection viewing. I'll be using a crappie Hygenian EP I have, air spaced EPs so no glue to foul. Probably the only good use for these EPs. I'd be using my C5, stopped down a little to reduce heat.

I take your point about binary systems. Alpha centuri does get a few 'ooh-aahh's' though, but I wouldn't get technical. Binary's spin me out enough.

I dig the idea of pirate eyepatches.

I've started compiling a trial list of objects:

* Southern cross, show it first so everyone at once gets something to see the can identify from our flag.

* Moon

* Jupiter & its moons

* Omega Centuri, a 'moon' of the Milky Way

* Eta Carina, where stars are being born

* Scorpius, probably the easiest constellation to identify as the object it describes

* M7 or the Jewel Box, M7 being more spectacular but the Jewel Box is in the southern cross.

May have to trim it down.

[bbgg (Ben)]

I have done a few science type days for pre school/primary kids. You have to be well organized and remember that their attention span per topic is all of 5 mins so you have to keep mixing it up. You might get 1/2 hr or so having them sit there looking at pics and the like but after that they will want to do something else. Kids at that age love hands on stuff. Have them build something or draw something to take home. Not sure of the resources at the pre school. Pin hole camera might be ok and they can pretend it is a telescope. Not hard to build but will need adults.

I would not let any young primary/pre school age child view the sun in any form. It is just too dangerous and I suspect the school will not allow it. Maybe kids in 4 and above maybe ok but the young ones never. I did a space day at my sons school some 2 years back to 3/4's and the school would not let me do it. Instead I download a video of the sun and showed them that. I think we also made sun dials in that session.

Showing kids things through a telescope is fantastic but it does take a while. This year I was on the schools 3/4 camp with my son and took my 8" dob along as well. It took almost 2 hrs to show 83 kids saturn. Most of the kids had not looked through an eye piece before so it took them a while to figure it out (with my help). You do not need a patch. Tell them to keep both eyes open and just put one hand over their eye. It was well worth the effort though. Most kids will be happy to see the moon or Jupiter, Saturn. Better to show them something that they know. It has a greater impact.

Might even be worth using a program like stellarium if the school has interactive white boards.

I always have great fun doing these type of things so good luck!

[stephenb (Stephen)]

I think your idea of solar projection is a better demonstration than a solar telescope.

You spend half your time lecturing the young 'uns about not looking at the Sun through a telescope, then you pull out the PST and you spend another 15 minutes explaining the contradiction. Best if you explain that the projection method is the safest.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Hi all,

This morning I did the morning viewing at my daughter's preschool. I learnt alot from this group of kids & about the choice of object to show.

The age of the kids ranged from early 3's to about 5. It was great to see how different their reactions & capabilities were. This was not a structured 'lesson', more just showing the moon & talk as the need required. No solar viewing at the teacher's request.

First thing I asked was if they were able to close one eye. If they struggled I suggested that the close one with the help of one hand while they held onto the little step ladder railing with the other (was good as very few were then able to touch the scope).

Getting some to look in the right direction into the EP was a good experience as I was able to see that even though I may know how to look into an EP, I noticed that the actual viewable 'angle' is quite narrow. Told each in turn then to 'look into the telescope through the glass'. Worked pretty well.

A thin cresent moon viewed in the morning is not a great target. No contrast & nearly washed out with the sky glow & most people expecting an image like that in a book. Next time if daytime viewing I will first show something more tangible, like a distant church steeple, etc, to show what a telescope does, then view the moon.

It was really good though. It was great for me to learn how to speak to littleies about using scopes, really simplifing the technique as much as I could. Should help with older 'customers' too as I can now see it is a learnt skill. Field of view presenting the greatest challenge.

Mental

[hulloleeds]

You're a brave man. Very brave, considering there was a great risk of the view being underwhelming.

[M54 (Molly)]

That's fantastic Mental.
And you know, amongst the throngs of the possibly underwhelmed are sometimes one or two kids who's lives are changed by the experience.

Awesome job.

[hulloleeds]

I saw a bit of "the sidewalk astronomer" this morning. I was surprised by how many people had their minds blown, looking at the moon. Surprised, in that it isn't something that is largely encouraged in any curriculum, or in society in general, yet it doesn't fail to incite wonder. I think it'd make a marked difference in child development in many cases. There isn't a lot of "magic" for young people once they've outgrown the standard sources and it'd be nice (and perhaps good for society) to reassure kids and teenagers that there are truly amazing things out there within reach.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Thanks for your support.

This second viewing will be on the early evening of this coming wednesday. The teacher has titled it, of all things- 'PIZZA & PLANET NIGHT', .

It is a novel idea, & only done with strict conditions from me, like insisting on washing hands before coming down to view.

The night is being limited to one parent & their child, sibblings & the other parent being discouraged to control numbers.

I did a reckie last night as the school ground to be used is on the western side of a ridge. Thankfully for 6pm, Jupiter appears just over this ridge. The plan is to show the kids the Southern Cross & Pointers, mentioning Alpha Centuri, & Scorpio & pointing out the general direction of the centre of the Milky Way near its 'tail'. I will have two or three scopes available, along with a helper, to show the Moon, Jupiter & either Omega centuri, the Jewel Box or some other bright cluster, and probably something on the city skyline, like Centre Point Tower.

The kids are going through some work on 'space' in their classes, so any talking from me will be general & simple while at the scopes.

My wife suggested to use the space shuttle in my talk in this way:

At the speed the shuttle orbits the Earth, it will take it ...(this long)... to reach the Moon, & ...(this long)... to reach Jupiter, since both will be visible & most tangible. I just need to fill in the gaps.

Lets see how we go.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Originally Posted by hulloleeds

I saw a bit of "the sidewalk astronomer" this morning. I was surprised by how many people had their minds blown, looking at the moon. Surprised, in that it isn't something that is largely encouraged in any curriculum, or in society in general, yet it doesn't fail to incite wonder. I think it'd make a marked difference in child development in many cases. There isn't a lot of "magic" for young people once they've outgrown the standard sources and it'd be nice (and perhaps good for society) to reassure kids and teenagers that there are truly amazing things out there within reach.

Well said my friend!!


Mental, Oh, you have encouraged, qwelled my nerves a tad. It is good to hear, of your success. Next week I will have my attempt. I am spending the week, printing A4 images and laminating them so the kiddies can touch.
I am think of setting the canon up to do star trails. Will add some good effect, the shutter noise etc... I can show picture now, of my attempts and what the camera is doing...(capturing 30 sec snaps)...


Oh I am excited... Sorry, I didn't read your last post, before posting this... Will you continue to do this for a number of times. Or is it just a once/twice off? You sound talented at it, from your responces.

I just have my fingers crossed there is clear skies.