ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
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Last Quarter 49.9%
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26-05-2010, 08:20 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,918
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Hi folks
Great thread.
My 2c worth. I agree with David, about $5k seems to me to be a realistic boundary between the low end and better imaging systems, but there is probably no need to be pedantic about this - guidance only and users can post where they think it is appropriate. Simon has a good idea of separating the images from the discussion - could get too unwieldy otherwise - but I dont understand enough about the underlying forum mechanics to comment on the best way to do this. Also, dont think that "great image" type comments will add much to this type of forum, so that could be indicated somewhere maybe?
Also posters should be encouraged to include as much info as possible on how the image was produced, known problems/limitations with equipment, software used and how etc. to get a discussion going and cross pollinate in as many areas as possible. Eventually, this could provide a collection of typical images from various types of equipment, which could be invaluable for anyone trying to improve their techniques.
Whatever, count me in - like David, I also want to learn more.
regards Ray
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26-05-2010, 08:46 PM
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Old Man Yells at Cloud
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rockingham WA
Posts: 3,435
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Hi Ray,
Thanks for the compliment but it's not my idea, it has been in use for some time in the terrestrial photography forum.
If you have a look at the following two links, you'll see how it works:
February Photo Challenge - Entries (Post them here)
February Photo Challenge - Comments
I have selected an old challenge as the current challenge isn't the best example.
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26-05-2010, 09:01 PM
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Old Man Yells at Cloud
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rockingham WA
Posts: 3,435
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If there is to be voting I can understand the need to set an equipment value range, but if the general concensus(sp?) is to abandon voting(yay) and just have some fun and as a means of comparison, I like the idea of open entry.
As with others, my main interest is in comparing my result with everyone elses, see how composition/data/processing etc etc contributes to differences in each persons image and learn from it.
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27-05-2010, 05:32 PM
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Photon sorter
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Warwick, Qld, Australia
Posts: 657
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Well, I've had a chance to think about the different opinions and preferences expressed here, and also just discoverd (Doh!) a very similar 'challenge' on CN. I quite like the basis of the CN approach ( http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea.../o/all/fpart/1). It encompasses most of what the majority of posts seem to prefer here on IIS.
However it's not what my original comments were meant to describe. I was looking for something that was a little more of a "cheap and cheerful" informational imaging thread, but based on the CN CCD challenge two-thread format (Now that I know it exists!)
So to summarise my final position, I would like to see a "challenge" that only encompassed main equipment; scope, mount and imager+FR eqpt setups, under $5K total cost. Misc accessories don't count. Used, new or DIY, don't care. Your cost. And if your sister bought it for you, that cost counts too.....
Over $5K, forget it, go find another challenge. The cheap and cheerful crowd can also go look at the images there. This one is aimed at giving them a fun informational challenge. If you want to say your 20" RCOS and AP mount cost $4,999 because you bought it from your sister, go ahead. Truth will out
A scoring system a la CN would be OK, and having a (2 months ago) previous winner nominate the next object is a nice touch.
So rather than asking for general comments, I'll ask, who else would like this approach? And no, not really interested in major variations on the theme.
Last edited by mldee; 27-05-2010 at 06:06 PM.
Reason: Carlified the beginner / cheap and cheerful wording
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27-05-2010, 06:24 PM
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Newtonian power! Love it!
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Mandurah
Posts: 2,597
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That sounds great, ide love to have a crack at it. As somebody who loves to squeeze his lemon as hard as i can, it would give me some focus to what to image!
look forward to see if something comes out of it
Brendan
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27-05-2010, 08:08 PM
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Really just a beginner
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,045
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mldee
Over $5K, forget it, go find another challenge. The cheap and cheerful crowd can also go look at the images there. This one is aimed at giving them a fun informational challenge.
So rather than asking for general comments, I'll ask, who else would like this approach? And no, not really interested in major variations on the theme.
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Little confused by this - you started this thread asking people for their opinions and now you want to call the shots??
Obviously my setup is >$5K - I take it you don't want me to participate. I firmly consider myself a beginner and would have expected to be outclassed by others. I believe the spirit that other posters in this thread have conveyed is one of wanting to LEARN in a non confrontational environment. If the top end imagers did participate, I would see this as being a source of inspiration - they were all beginners once and some might even enjoy helping others who want to learn. Most, including me, have discouraged voting.
Your initial post said "all classes welcome". To exclude someone who has purchased expensive gear doesn't seem inclusive, not does it abide by the "respect and dignity" that Mike fosters on this site.
I hope this doesn't destroy what I thought was developing into a good idea.
David T
Last edited by DavidTrap; 27-05-2010 at 08:21 PM.
Reason: clarity
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27-05-2010, 08:41 PM
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Photon sorter
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Warwick, Qld, Australia
Posts: 657
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Just that the number of opinions and options was becoming too confusing for me. So I simply went back to basics of clarifying my original post, based on the additional info I had received, and I'm most grateful for all the feedback from IIS members.
Sorry if you feel my final proposed parameters are too narrow and "undemocratic". I'm just expressing my final preference for how I would prefer to see such a thing run. Others who may not agree are quite free to propose their own different styles of "challenges". I guess Mike and others will have the final say on what should proceed and what shouldn't.
Cheers,
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27-05-2010, 09:10 PM
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Really just a beginner
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,045
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Thank-you for your apology Mike.
As you suggested others propose their ideas, here goes nothing:
Monthly DSO Imaging Challange - object specified around Full Moon each month.
All comers welcome.
No voting.
All images submitted with standard template including:
* Scope: (+/- reducers/flatteners)
* Imaging device:
* Mount:
* Guiding:
* Exposure details:
* Stacking method:
* Summary of post processing:
* Date(s) image taken:
* Darkness of imaging site: Good, Bad, Ugly
Encouragement that the image be taken during that month, but images taken previously are not excluded (to allow for weather and other life commitments) - declaring the date of imaging also lets others learn how image quality is affected by the phase of the moon.
Each poster to suggest an object for next month - the most popular becomes the subject for next month. (This also encourages beginners to consider what objects might be suitable targets next month)
One thread for posting images
One thread for comments, critiques and advice.
I have purposely left out any reference to price of ones setup - that should be obvious to those concerned by reading the standard template.
Regards
David T
Last edited by DavidTrap; 27-05-2010 at 09:16 PM.
Reason: formatting
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27-05-2010, 09:56 PM
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kids+wife+scopes=happyman
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: sydney, australia
Posts: 5,003
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BINGO! David. This model seems the most inclusive.
Mike, I hope you see why I favour this method. I would like it to be as unaggresive as can be, but it still allows the 'alpha males' to mark their territory.
I am amazed at how this thread is developing. I love it, fellow IIS members.
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27-05-2010, 10:00 PM
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Really just a beginner
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,045
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Thanks Alexander
DT
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27-05-2010, 10:06 PM
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Automation nut
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bathurst
Posts: 667
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I love the model as it stands.
Thanks to Mike and David for thrashing it out, Post it the first challenge and see if you can get a mod to make it a sticky.
Whos picking the first target?
Brett
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27-05-2010, 10:15 PM
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Photon sorter
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Warwick, Qld, Australia
Posts: 657
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I'll let David go for it.
Cheers,
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27-05-2010, 10:26 PM
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Really just a beginner
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,045
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Mike - it has not been my intention to seek control of this project, but if you're happy, I'd be honoured to take up the challenge.
I'll wait until tomorrow night to give other a chance to make their thoughts known.
Regards
David T
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27-05-2010, 11:42 PM
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Photon sorter
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Near Warwick, Qld, Australia
Posts: 657
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David, please feel free to do so. I would not really be interested in trying to organise something that was not of further interest to me.
Cheers,
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27-05-2010, 11:53 PM
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Old Man Yells at Cloud
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Rockingham WA
Posts: 3,435
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Ok, i'm confused
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28-05-2010, 08:33 AM
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Automation nut
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bathurst
Posts: 667
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Mike,
Its your baby, and you started this whole ball rolling. Its people like you, putting a lot of time and thought into ideas that makes iis what it is.
I think you should start the ball rolling (tonight?) and dont get disheartened. People do appreciate what you have done here.
Many thanks
Brett
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28-05-2010, 09:53 AM
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kids+wife+scopes=happyman
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: sydney, australia
Posts: 5,003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bert
Mike,
People do appreciate what you have done here.
Many thanks
Brett
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You bettcha! This one monster thread you have started, Mike. My intention in contributing has been to attempt to give a point of view impartial to 'imaging'.
I've attempted to give an insight into community from the point of view from the little threads that make up the 'Obs. Challenge'. The visual boys and girls there can be just as competitive- look at the size of some of their gear (get that indiya Imagers!). What is enjoyable about it is how it gives the whole crowd a focus to come together on, with each and every participant (contributing with a post or not), having a go as legitimate as the next person, regardless of their gear, experience, health, etc. What contributions are made, I hope, are seen as comradery with those sharing a common passion.
Why not a choice of target by both Mike and David togther. This makes it community. One gave the idea, the other the method. The debate on preference leads to consensus and equal contribution.
Mental
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28-05-2010, 10:04 AM
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Really just a beginner
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,045
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As I said earlier - it was not my intention to take this over. If Mike wants to run with this, I will not stand in his way.
I made my comments about his proposed method (and proposed an alternative) because I believed it didn't encompass the "style of challange" which had been expressed by the ISS community during the thread.
I'll give Mike the opportunity to think this over and let us know if he wants to run with this, otherwise I am happy to talk to the moderators about this and see what can be arranged.
Regards
David T
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28-05-2010, 11:07 AM
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Sir Post a Lot!
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Gosford, NSW, Australia
Posts: 36,799
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My 2c..
I'm more than happy for some motivated individuals to start up the Monthly Challenges for DSO imaging again. As RB pointed out, it's been done in the past with some moderate success, but ended up stopping because the motivated individuals at the time stopped
It used to be combined with the Monthly Observing Challenge - the same object(s) were chosen for both visual observers and imagers. The visual observers would post their observing reports and/or sketches, and the imagers would post their images.
Then a DSO challenge was run separately (some years later) with some success, but again it was up to the motivated individual at the time.
The observing guys have now started up the Monthly Observing Challenge again, which is great.
From my experience, the best way to run this new DSO challenge, is:
- No restrictions on who can post an image
- No restrictions on value of the gear used
- No voting for the 'best'. It's a "challenge", not a competition.
- Contributors should post as much information as possible about the gear used/processing used, so that others can learn from it.
You'll get to see the same object from many different types of gear, focal length, cameras, conditions, and of course the skill of the imager and the processing used.
The aim of it initially was simply to give the imaging/observing a purpose - to get people out there focusing on a target.
So ideally you'd want people to capture the target during that month, rather than just post an image they took previously. But I don't think there should be any hard and fast rule about that. It's just for fun, after all.
Anyway they're just my thoughts. Happy for you guys to do it as you see fit - you're the motivated individuals this time around so it's up to you
Happy to help any way I can, sticky the threads etc.
Cheers
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28-05-2010, 11:20 AM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,622
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I agree with what Mike just said, it's the best way and everyone can get involved.
It's been suggested to have an anonymous DS challenge but our experience has found that this quickly dies due to lack of interest.
It wasn't the administrative overheads that caused us to stop the anonymous terrestrial monthly challenge, it was lack of interest.
So we have reverted back to the requested method of the monthly challenge where everyone is welcome to post their own work.
Anyway it would be great to see this startup again, good luck with it, whoever is going to start it up again.
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