Astrophotography - I have $2,347 and 60 cents

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Hi,

In addition to the good comments already I here are some suggested items for you...


Scope
8" f5 newt (I was going to suggest f5 over f4 anyway you can use visually and its less difficult to collimate). plus you can probably live without a coma corrector for a little while by cropping images.
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=133753
or if you go refractor http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=133960

$300

Coma corrector
http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotog...oductview.aspx

Someone may need to suggest a flattener if you get the refractor - i don't have one so can't comment on what is good.

$339

Autouiding

This is something you can do later, you should be able to get 30-60 seconds with your mount and good polar alignment without one to go longer requires guiding. Done either through a guidescope or Off axis guider - and guide camera.

http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotog...oductview.aspx

$500

Camera

dslr
eg 450d
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/port-...box/1076021791
$250

550d
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/clayt...ion/1076183519

Shoestring cabling
http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotog...oductview.aspx

$109

Mount

HEQ5, or NEQ6 or AZNEQ6 as people have mentioned.

or maybe the newer AZEQ5
http://www.bintel.com.au/Mounts---Tr...oductview.aspx#
$2000

or HEQ5 $1800
http://www.bintel.com.au/Mounts---Tr...oductview.aspx

Unfortunately a lot of mounts have gone up in price recently due to the aussie dollar..

a second hand mount would save you a lot. ... and here is one just listed

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=133964 with a 8" newt and refractor $1200






Russ

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

....Eratosthenes is taking notes...lots of notes...thanks Russel for the guide to prices and the exposure times acceptable without a guidescope set up. That could be useful.

and yes I did notice a spike in the prices of mounts, OTAs and other imported gear over the past few weeks.

I do have someone who will be going to China in June and returning later in the year. May be worthwhile tracking some accessories and a camera from Shanghai. That could allow me to get a good GOTO mount and OTA from Melbourne with the budget I have at the moment.

Meanwhile it's the cheapy, very old, uncontrollable refractor with the shocking lenses and unusable 3X Barlow lens for me. Although my simple 6" Newtonian is a lot better, but again without a drive and cheapish optics and aging hand controls, is becoming very difficult to use. (both have opened up the skies for me though and I will most likely donate them to the neighbours young kids who have used them occasionally)

cheers

[Nortilus (Josh)]

Get a Dslr, get it with a twin lense kit, get a ioptron skytracker, get a remote timer for your dslr, learn how to polar align the skytracker and start with doing wide fields...
Dont get an uber expensive mount, dont get a telescope yet, dont get all the other stuff like guide scopes, dew heaters, and all that...this is the advice i wish someone had given me. I learnt the hard way which cost alot of $$$ and frustration. I did meet alot of awesome people along the way but yeah. Start small, learn the software needed to make images too...most is free.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Josh, I do have a low end Canon DSLR (EOS 100D) with a standard lens which is a very good camera.

I am not that concerned about the learning curve or making blunders. All part of the experience.

Need to dive into the deep end sometimes. I have reasonably good background in astronomical phenomena and using a basic reflector and refractor telescope. Astrophotography sounds like lots of fun, even with the obvious frustrations of getting clear images.

I remember constructing a stellar tracker mount for a camera out of two planks of wood, some hinges and a threaded bolt of specific pitch. Just followed the instructions and you were able to follow objects in the sky by turning the bolt at one revolution per minute (like the second hand of a clock). This enabled longer exposures without star trails etc. Very crude set up, but at the time a great little project for a young teenager.

Looked something like this, except I didn't have a tripod at the time, so I just had the tracker set up on a table. You could obtain good long exposures if you had a steady hand and aligned the tracker accurately.

http://petapixel.com/assets/uploads/...slrtracker.jpg

[wasyoungonce (Brendan)]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

Josh, I do have a low end Canon DSLR (EOS 100D) with a standard lens which is a very good camera.

Perfect...has Digic5 processor. With reference to my post above, APT or BYEOS will be able to tether and control this camera with a laptop. Makes taking images easy.

All you need is a 2" T ring adaptor to fit the camera to focuser, then use the above programs to achieve optimum focus and away you go.

Russell hit the nail on the head...some good quality 2nd hand gear available on this site.

[cometcatcher (Kevin)]

Take a look at the beginner's photography section Peter to see what the starters, or the cheap skates like me are able to shoot. Low end astrophotography typically involves some sort of basic DSLR, a telescope with focal length of 1000mm or less and a "cheap" Skywatcher or similar mount. The results of this basic setup can be quite good.

Compare if you like to the deep space image section which is mostly more experienced imagers with top shelf gear. They often use cooled CCD cameras, big heavy duty mounts and better optics. Not only that but they may spend 100 hours taking just one photo!

Yes experience is a huge part of it, but so is the almighty dollar. I'm content with my cheap setup. I've decided I won't be going expensive cooled CCD any time soon. My location is frequently cloudy anyway so I can't justify it.

[nebulosity. (Jo)]

Lots of good advice here, an eq6 and an 8" f5 newt is a real nice start I reckon.

I use a 8" f5 newt and find it pretty fool proof. If you wanted to save a little money don't get scared of building one, I built mine and for about $180.

My whole AP setup is worth under $500 and I have been able to get a lot of nice images from it, so don't worry to much about spending big.

I don't use any computer control or guiding, or any of that stuff. I don't really think there is much benefit other than costing lots and making extra headaches (you will have enough to start with anyway )

If my advice is worth anything, I would say an eq6 with a shorter focal length newt and a coma corrector will do great. Then grab yourself a timer remote for your camera and you are set.

As you get more experienced you will probably find that your camera will become the only limiting factor.

Cheers
Jo

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Thanks for the advice. All very valuable.

I must say that I am starting to feel a little guilty spending my piggy bank coins when so many posters here seem to getting good image results and experiences with must lower cost set ups.

My impression so far is that the mount is the most important equipment item in any set up and should make up the bulk of the initial outlay. Unfortunately the reflector and refractor which I currently use are very old with very poor optics and I don't want talk about the 2 Barlow lens.

i am keep to see deep sky objects better and want to get into astro measurements. Measuring the orbit speed of planets, and their moons etc. long term observations that reveal intricate motions and behaviors. The imaging is almost secondary to that goal.

The skywatcher NEQ6 mount is looking attractive, not sure if I can afford the AZ EQ version.

Can anybody assist with why an AZ option is handy and whether it does anything better than the standard GEM? Is it just simplicity of set up and operation?

Cheers

[AndrewJ]

Gday Peter

Can anybody assist with why an AZ option is handy

If you just want to set up quickly for visual work,
AltAz is very simple and keeps the EP at a much more stable position.

Andrew

[bugeater (Marty)]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

Can anybody assist with why an AZ option is handy and whether it does anything better than the standard GEM? Is it just simplicity of set up and operation?

Cheers

I've never used the function on mine, but the mount is meant to be better for a few other reasons other than just the AZ function. Such as being belt driven, which is often an upgrade people make to the NEQ6 meaning you end up spending just as much anyway. But if money is tight I'm not sure the AZ version is necessary. Plenty of amazing images have been taken on the EQ6

[Eden (Brett)]

Hi there Peter,

Ken made a very good suggestion and I would have to agree. Investing in an EQ6 series mount and using your existing telescope tube would be a very good start, giving you a stable platform to build on over time.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Peter, what are you interesting in taking photographs of? This would have an influence on where might be a good place to start.

As you've probably gathered so far, the mount is the key to taking good images, be they wide field images of the Milky Way, solar system objects or deep space objects.

The EQ6 and AZ versions are popular mounts, but you'd need to decide whether it fits in with your interests and capabilities. Either way, the AZ version is worth the extra $$ with its belt drive and more refined adjustments in altitude and azimuth that make it that much easier to hone in on a good polar alignment. The AZ is also a kg or two lighter, but be prepared that the heaviest component of each is about 16kg.

Of course, if you're only interested in wide fields of view and/or nightscapes, then the smaller and cheaper sky tracker devices on a decent tripod will work well and weigh a lot less.

Before getting to caught up in a scope, I'd decide on what interests you most now and work from there. You'd be surprised what you can do with your current camera, whatever lenses you already have and a remote shutter of some kind (an intervalometer for example).

[bugeater (Marty)]

It's small in the scheme of things, but if you are comfortable installing magic lantern on your camera, you can get by without an intervalometer.

[gregbradley]

As you have pointed out the mount is the most important item in imaging.

The best scope on a poor mount still gives horrendous images. A not so great scope on an excellent mount will give better images.

So the scale of importance is:

1. The best mount you can afford (they seem a lot cheaper now than they used to).

2. The best scope you can afford (bear in mind the upgrade path usually involves a financial loss). An ED80 refractor is a common good starting point for a scope.

3. The best camera. Modified Canon DSLRs are some of the best.
I suspect the earlier models of Canon DSLRs are better than some of the later models where the pixels are starting to get too small. 350D is a beaut. I am not sure Canon improved on that particularly with later models from the viewpoint of astrophotography. Later models get smaller and smaller pixels and perhaps noisier. Others can say for sure as I don't do DSLR imaging any more but from what I have seen of images it would seem advancement stopped/peaked around about the 350D/20Da.

Starting out, a modified Canon 350D is stunning performer with lots of software backup, lots of other imager using similar gear to advise you and relatively easy processing.

You will need to add a guiding solution to the above to complete the package. An offaxis guider is the best solution. There are several that are not that expensive. You could add that later once you've done a bunch of images at 30 seconds.

On a typical mount that is well aligned you are able to get 30 second images without elongated stars at about 600mm focal length. Beyond 30 seconds you are going to need autoguiding. But you could take quite a few objects that are bright with 30 seconds to get going.

Greg.

[sil (Steve)]

you can do astrophotography with your existing camera. Try doing that and actually learn that its not just pressing a button to take a photo. Plus it all depends on what you want to photograph. You dont NEED a telescope or anything else at this point, find out what AP involves and understand what your limitations are so you know where you'll make best use of your money. We all have gear gathering dust because it seemed like the thing to buy at the time. The gear won't solve your problem if you haven't a clue whats involved. What you have already can get you good photos, the rest is up to you.

[Logieberra (Logan)]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

... Can anybody assist with why an AZ option is handy and whether it does anything better than the standard GEM? Is it just simplicity of set up and operation?

Cheers

I saw one setup over the weekend in alt az mode. Impressive for that purpose. But, for plain old astro imaging, I'm not sure what benefits it provides over the venerable NEQ6Pro. Yes the AZ is belt driven, probably sounds better on the slew - but PE is the real test. The PE would want to be significantly lower, peak to peak, to justify the extra expense of the AZ. Carrying capacity might be another factor. Best confirm that.

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

Originally Posted by Logieberra

I saw one setup over the weekend in alt az mode. Impressive for that purpose. But, for plain old astro imaging, I'm not sure what benefits it provides over the venerable NEQ6Pro. Yes the AZ is belt driven, probably sounds better on the slew - but PE is the real test. The PE would want to be significantly lower, peak to peak, to justify the extra expense of the AZ. Carrying capacity might be another factor. Best confirm that.

thanks logieberra,

PE can be corrected via the option on the handset. I do want a guidscope port on the mount so that I can invest in a guide scope set up.

My main motivation for imaging and tracking is to carry out measurements and monitoring long term on various astronomical objects. Sensational images and using post processing software is less important to me.

I prefer to measure redshifts of galaxies than produce award winning images using supreme accuracy tracking. Most likely quasar redshifts because of their relative brightness

[ericwbenson (Eric)]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

I prefer to measure redshifts of galaxies than produce award winning images using supreme accuracy tracking. Most likely quasar redshifts because of their relative brightness

Except for the very few brightest this will require a spectroscope with a slit (=heavy), a mono CCD and a fairly large aperture as compared to the short refractors that populate the smaller mounts. The EQ6 is probably not on that track.

However even the smallest "high quality" mount will be much more than 2.5K so perhaps you could proceed with something needing less aperture in mind e.g. photometry, eclipsing binaries, Be stars, monitoring cataclysmic variables etc.

Being realistic, as soon as one wants to put a digital camera on a telescope (never mind the spectroscope), kiss goodbye to 5K, and then more the year after that, and after that,... ! But at least it's fun

Best,
EB

[Logieberra (Logan)]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

... PE can be corrected via the option on the handset. I do want a guidscope port on the mount so that I can invest in a guide scope set up ...

Look into PemproV2 for PE correction. It's the gold standard. Guide scope ports (ST-4) are found on most goto mounts, but there are other software-related options (see EQMODs PulseGuide).

[codemonkey (Lee)]

Originally Posted by Logieberra

Look into PemproV2 for PE correction.

I'd really like to give that a shot but the support doesn't really seem to be there for camera at the moment... supposedly ASCOM support is on the way soon, which'll be nice!