An incnvenient truth - a global warning

[xelasnave]

The best thing to keep democracy is strangly is to have more lawyers but to include a civil free legal fee system.. equality before the law turns on cash behind you. I am sick of seeing folk wiped out because of a legal battle.. winning and still downed by the bill. But as bad as it is humans can not at the moment invent better that manages their gluttony. Feast or famine.. not much different to any animal really.

alex

[casstony]

The only way to improve our democracy is to have better educated voters who will be less susceptible to manipulation at election time. Theoretically a black ******* who likes to wear a sombrero should be able to be elected as PM provided a critically thinking electorate agreed with her policies. I'm not sure how to achieve this though; maybe philosophy classes in secondary school?

Originally Posted by glenc

Is the US a democracy? It costs $millions to run for president, then the president is controlled by the people who donated the millions! And he has a veto!
Is Australia a democracy? Basically the media owners "tell" people how to vote. The winners in this years NSW & Federal elections will be the people the media owners want in office.

[xelasnave]

What was glossed over at school when we learnt about democracy and its start attributed to Greece was the fact that only a few of Greeks were included in the game .
The net is levelling the playing field trying to control votes is not the only way to manage power . Eveyone can help if they believe they can . AND I would like to think that when in power they act for the common good.. mmm back to the future to find the concept better devloped I think .
alex

[Ric]

We didn't even get democracy classes in school when I was there.
All I got was English history and the Feudal system and I learn't more anyway from watching Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Cheers

[xelasnave]

history is a very good thing to look at , however most think the mistakes of earlier peoples as just "history" but we can learn much of ourselves today . All throught human history people have been rallied for this and that ..thats the system really..the Lord provides security and gets paid well for doing it using the energy excessivley of those he is there to protect . Nothing wrong with that either as long as the Lord does the right thing . Leaders are supposed to be in power to guide and protect the people who allow them to be there.. be they voting citizens or serfs even slaves. When the Lord forgets his role society crumbles from both top and bottom. The middle classes wonder why they are being eaten from both sides..
But I hope we can be more than a barrel of mixtures with scum on the top and solid stuff confined to the bottom . The net brings a better lot and all is as it should be in the world . We are seeing the evolution of humans.. for better or for worse only time will remember us finally.
alex

[Tiroch]

The Inconvenient Truth is that we are the inconvenient in the natural activity of dear Mother Earth or Gaia as some express it.

We are the inconvenient because we inject into the weather equations Dear Mother Earth operates on as we are an unknown.

Dear Mother Earth cannot figure the means to handle our interjection.

So Dear Mother Earth seems to be confused. Or is it?

Is it confused or are we confused?

Well Dear Mother Earth has done its thing for eons without confusion.

Thus we are the ones confused.

Global Warming (HCC) is a very natural thing Dear Mother Earth goes through whenever it does it. Precession, solar radiance changes and etc. cause warming.

The natural condition of Earth is to be warm at 22 deg. C.

Refer here: http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

[glenc (Glen)]

CO2 levels are rising rapidly. Here is a graph for the last 450,000 years.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/warming/etc/graphs.html

[Ric]

Did anyone hear our illustrious leader in parliament yesterday stating that Nuclear power is the cleanest and greenest option , I nearly choked on my dinner. What happened to solar?

Cheers

[Karls48 (Karl)]

The link that Glenc has posted is very interesting. Especially the last graph showing CO2 levels in the atmosphere over last 450 00 years. The graph shows cyclic rise and fall of CO2 levels in approximately 100 000 years interval. According to this graph we are due to dramatic fall in concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere quite soon. I do not think that the have a Kyoto protocol 350 000 years ago.

[glenc (Glen)]

On the other hand we might have a runaway CO2 increase and finish up with a planet like Venus.

[Tiroch]

To glenc,

It is known that gas measurements in compressed ice is not the same as gas measurements in free air.

So it is a case of apples and oranges to compare carbon dioxide in ancient ice to carbon dioxide in today's atmosphere.

[glenc (Glen)]

Please provide evidence from a respected scientific journal.

[astroron (Ron)]

Mother earth did not have in the past, six to seven billion humans pumping out billions of tons of garbage and CO2 twenty four hours a day three hundred and sixty five day a year into the atmosphere

[casstony]

Since humans are natural does it follow that everything we do is natural? Perhaps intelligent, competitive life forms naturally destroy themselves, hence the lack of ET's. Maybe we're doing what we're programmed to do so let's just enjoy ourselves and die rich.

If there are any coal industry representatives interested in employing a new, cutting edge PR guy, give me a bell.

[mick pinner]

Sonia, this may seem almost unthinkable to you but recycling is a con, do some serious and honest research on the matter and you will see the cost of recycling in terms of resources and dollars does not make it a viable alternative to land fill.
Look at the resources used by recycling facilities to fulfill their purpose, get some info on how much land is used for landfill and you will be surprised at what you find.
l understand that people want to do the right thing but what sounds like a good idea is often taken for granted without a lot of detailed examination.

[Tiroch]

To glenc, (Post 52)

I present the following:

http://www.john-daly.com/zjiceco2.htm


A line of evidence has been added since 1980. Ice buried below the surface of the Greenland and Antarctic ice caps contains bubbles of air trapped when the ice originally formed. These samples of fossil air, some of them over 200,000 years old, have been retrieved by drilling deep into the ice. Measurements from the youngest and most shallow segments of the ice cores, which contain air from only a few decades ago, produce carbon dioxide concentrations nearly identical to those that were measured directly in the atmosphere at the time the ice formed. But the older parts of the cores show that carbon dioxide amounts were about 25% lower than today for the ten thousand years previous to the onset of industrialization, and over that period changed little.

Of course highly compressed ice would have a far different air bubble than fresh ice. Thus the use of fresh ice as the same as ancient ice is wrong.

[glenc (Glen)]

RE:Statement written for the US Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, March 2004. The Bush government was doing its best to deny climate change at that time.

People used to believe that the earth was flat. People used to believe that the earth was at the center of the universe. People used to deny climate change was happening. If your lifestyle/job produces lots of CO2 you will have trouble accepting that man is contributing to global warming.

[Tiroch]

So glenc you believe a scientist from a Poland place was kow towing to Bush? You believe this scientist was there at that meeting to prostitute his research? The prostitutes are the ones pushing us as the blame.

So do your own searches on that matter.

I've been on the climate file since '85.

Ridiculous!

My lifestyle contributes whatever it does. I don't fly in planes. I work at home so I don't commute.

Right the world is not flat. Right the Earth is not at the centre of the Universe. (please note when writing about our universe it is capital U).

It is not the deny of climate change that is the issue. It is the cause.

It is not that humankind is not contributing to this situation.

It is that it is minuscule (3 - 4% max.).

It is that such contribution is accelerating a Mother Earth Natural Warm cycle.

If you actually believe the we mere humans are bigger than Mother Earth, well I say you are a lost soul.

My goodness to you we are more powerful than our life giving source - the Sun which is the Mother of All weather generators.

John

[Ric]

I might have missed a bit somewhere but if Humans are only contibuting 3-4% of the CO2 that affecting our planet where is the other 96-97% coming from.

Cheers

[Tiroch]

And glenc take a go at this. I posted here on another thread which was dumped by Moderator:

http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

You will note the World is leaving a cool cycle and that the World is normally warm at 22C.

We live in an aberration temperature wise (normally warm and we are cool) and since we have a history of less that an eye blink in the grand scheme of the History of Earth we do not know that which is the issue. BTW The thermometer was only invented in the earlier 1800's and became in use to record temps. only in the later 1800's. All prior is anecdotal or from Earth Science research and Geological research.

And further the network of Earth based temperature stations have remained static and as urban growth encroached the stations have been caught in the Urban Heat Sink. If you care to study you will find space sats. find the temp. has not changed much over many tears.