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  #21  
Old 24-02-2007, 12:11 PM
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Here's a few things the local Government can do right now to show some action!
1. Remove/turn off every 2nd streetlight..except at intersections.
2. Legisation that all industrial and domsetic indoor/outdoor lighting be either Fluro or LED.
3. Provide half-fare public transport for workers in the CBD.
4. Reward those who reduce their power/fuel consumption.
5. Water companies to provide a scheme to fit watertanks where possible with the option to pay off the costs via the water bill over an agreed period.
The money saved from the first idea will more than pay for the others..
Cheers!
  #22  
Old 24-02-2007, 11:37 PM
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A quick thought, a result of global warming is an increase in cloud cover therefore as amateur astronomers we have the most to lose out of this deal.

Now that is something to worry about, less viewing and imaging.
  #23  
Old 25-02-2007, 01:47 PM
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Not a bad film/doco.

The cynic in me can see old Uncle Al Gore paving the way for another tilt at the White House.

With global warming and saving the planet the "hottest" ticket in town, he's very well positioned to cash in, politically.

But that's just the cynic in me speaking.

Good on him, anyway. We need people like him, who were once key players in the Administration, coming out and saying these things and spreading the word, as somewhat belated as it may be.
  #24  
Old 25-02-2007, 04:05 PM
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It will be interesting to see what we buy next week or what money the Government will put to investigations by a fairdinkum committee to push the alternatives . Big add tonight to get everyone looking to the falling sky . And as to the nuclear thing let’s milk it dry and sell Uranium to the world if it’s cheap energy and use our other huge energy options and creativeness, and cash in on it and not becoming buyers of our own stock . . But we should not forget that the reason some say we are in the current mess is because of the availability of cheap energy. More air conditions will put heat into the atmosphere but Mr Average thinks he cans use his air conditioner if they go nuclear ..Because the “adds: have produced such a result.
alex
  #25  
Old 25-02-2007, 04:39 PM
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Th attached pdf file gives some interesting statistics by a man who sells solar energy.
http://www.greenandgoldenergy.com.au/
Alex, an air conditioner is a heat pump, it just transfers heat from inside to outside.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Only Game in Town.pdf (10.1 KB, 15 views)
  #26  
Old 25-02-2007, 06:23 PM
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"will put heat into the atmosphere" Glen I mean the energy to run them creating the gases we all worry about, not the heat exchange, as they are currently put up as the reason why we have back outs around here ..personally I think it probably goes deeper but thats a good cop out ..a run down system would not enter into the back outs would they?? AND black outs tend to cause one to focus on the possibilities on the table whatever they are . Its as though one is being told consume more not be efficient.. again the solution is almost here so we need not worry .
Interesting stats on actually having a real input from solar and the other info thanks for links.. The Duboo Zoo has a fantasic array and get much of their energy from same.
One thing is for sure I think the problem also contains an element of gloutony that needs to be addressed . Real cut backs rationing if the market cant control its drive. And a few of the suggestions provided herein adopted but a market economy depends on consumption to grow and to sustain its future..not saying that is wrong but it means if you have the money you become wasteful..big cars, homes, too much of everything much of which need not be consumed but require energy to produce.
The will of the people is to fix it but not many will leave a Government in power if they cut out v8s and air conditioners .. so it comes down unfortunately to personal responisibilitiy and not many can be personally responsible... big problem which ever power sources are used.. I bet we are the first species to use up all the available energy from the Sun to keep our life styles . Sooner or later the Sun will be our only source of energy as it always has been in the past ..be it oil or coal or timber or wind or tides it is all finally Solar .. nuclear is the odd one out really.
But lets sell all we have got and buy more solar panels , more wind turbines , more tidal generator plants and more hydro plants to take up the slack that will be left when the nuclear fuel runs out .
alex
alex
  #27  
Old 25-02-2007, 08:53 PM
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Argonavis (William)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt View Post
Not a bad film/doco.

The cynic in me can see old Uncle Al Gore paving the way for another tilt at the White House.

You mean not a bad piece of science fiction/junk science


http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...I5MGEwZTFhM2E=
  #28  
Old 25-02-2007, 08:56 PM
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I found it reasonably engaging and entertaining.

I didn't say I swallowed it hook, line and sinker
  #29  
Old 26-02-2007, 12:16 AM
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A very interesting article Glen, thanks for sharing.
I find the the whole idea of carbon sequestration a bit of a joke, the govt is going to spend millions to look into the feasability of the technology to achieve this. Assuming that they can and that the correct geologic strata is found the the logistics of transporting CO2 arises. Any such plant and subsequent technology is still a minimum of 20 years away.
The money would be better spent in developing solar power.

Cheers
  #30  
Old 26-02-2007, 04:45 AM
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This might be interesting: Four Corners
8.30pm – 9.20pm ABC Monday 26 February 2007
Behind the campaign to deny the science of global warming...
  #31  
Old 26-02-2007, 07:33 AM
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Carbon sequestration is another con job ..It is that simple..An excuse to move money is what it boils down to.. I heard our Government is going to spend $500,000,000-00 on this impossible dream . There is absolutely no plausible evidence to support the notion.. non whatsoever.. any one who cares to look can see same but because their gaze is firmly fixed on the falling sky, they don’t . If all the carbon is successfully removed by such a system (and that is impossible in the extreme) we still have a situation that the planet is warming so what is the point other than moving money from the people’s pockets to vested interests that are behind this global warming lobby .. the global warming lobby is about one thing and one thing only …making money out of a scare campaign that chicken littles buy. We are the stupid chicken littles and each and every one of us should feel firstly stupid and vulnerable. Remember the Y2K bug?? Remember the folk storing food for the day riots broke out because the system would break down if something was not done..where did the money go mmm same place as the bug went to hide.? We should feel indignation that we are treated with such distain. However we deserve to have such tricks played upon us because we do nothing to stand up for truth by not taking the time to simply think about the bulldust we are fed and stupidly consume .
When you see Mr Gore working his lift to find the figures that “are off the chart” ask yourself is this science??? well as a “salesman” I can tell you yes it is “science” ..the “science of selling”. Rule of selling draw extreme examples to make your point.
The con now is to sell us nuclear power stations and desalinates, we hear the “science” we see the pictures and we feel the guilt. AND make no mistake it will happen the deal has been done all they are doing now is to convince the unsuspecting chicken littles they were the ones that had the idea.. Geez I have sold houses to people who were on their way home from holidays and stopped for a coffee and thought they would have a look in the agent’s window.. they did not know they wanted to live in my town until “sold” the idea . AND if I could sell 10 houses Mr Gore could sell 100 he is the best salesman I have seen in operation . So what is he selling I don’t see his operation as that of a concerned citizen spending his wealth to help the world.. Maybe the US public will thrust him into the White House because he is a caring person as that is the image to run with given he is so concerned with global warming. Does he really care ..yes about what is good for him and his.. think otherwise and you are a fool.
And our pollies must see the value in the global warming bulldust given the way they are eager to spend our money so quickly and in the face of a 50% opposition, opposition that they take care to use every opportunity to marginalise.… no opponent to any idea deserves to be labelled “not real” before the argument has started. Can’t beat them with the facts as they are cooked so let’s just call the opponents crazy..I would like to be as crazy as the experts who say the problem is stated incorrectly..smart people who have done their homework are not “not real” …but using that term calls into question their undisputable scientific findings. . obviously no debate on nuclear power took place or was ever expected to take place as the sites for power stations must have already been available given how fast they were released after the PM’s statement. But don’t get me wrong I like John Howard and think he is a good man it is sad to see him manipulated this way and forced to make such press releases to satisfy a strong lobby, it is personally upsetting. I always saw him as a decent man with the gutz to stand up for what is right .. That is unfortunately very silly of me (and others) as no man can remain that strong in the face of the lobby group that has set upon him. Who was the crew who came up with the nuclear sites any ways..I know it had “Commonwealth” in the title which would suggest a Government body but was it?? I doubt it. Who was chosen to “head” this group?And if not a Government body how come they can use the term “Commonwealth” in their title… that is not allowed at law. How can someone get such a name registered I question .
One hears horror stories about Russian subs rotting in dock the nuclear fuel threatening to leak away with no one prepared to anything about it..
With this Global Warming nonsense one wonders two things..Are these rumours with any foundation? Are they being started so money can be spent to clean up a non existent problem? Well if not rumours and this is happening, how can the nuclear lobby say to us that nuclear has no problems .
Is this the world they expect us to happily except?. All Governments have a tendency to screw up when dealing with real issues. Can no one see a future where a Government will not act to fix up a nuclear problem because it costs too much and the committee has not released its report on what should be done.. and one thinks given the committee recommendations the Governments of the world would follow the expert findings.. well they don’t.. it surprises me that all think there will be no problems..in the perfect world yes there will be no problems, but I am sorry to be the one to break the news we do not live in a perfect world..corruption greed and self serving promotion of vested interests rule the play. Well common folk have to look after their self interest also not leave it in the hands of self serving gluttons..protect our cash, protect our reasonable views from brain washing by one of the best salesmen on the planet and protect our future.
I was wrong the big add is next week ..so get ready for a week of more doom and gloom.. but don’t get hit by any falling sky even us chicken littles can think if we take the time.
See if you can get a letter in opposition published this week. Look for the claims to reinforce your guilt of heating the planet. Just look and you will see it all unfold as I suggest… but I would be very very happy to be wrong on this but I got money to say I wont be and would even back my view with an odds on bet… and I never do that.
AND if we go nuclear why, why why will we not reap the benefits but be called upon to live in a polluted country thats only role is to bury the waste and supply the mine sites.
Why is there no talk that the fuel be nationalised? Should it not be nationalised for control and benefit of the people of this country?. Makes sense to me but I am sure there will be many experts come forward to say that is a silly idea...mmm exactly what part of such an idea is silly?? Do we need these things controlled by private concerns as they know whats better for us than our Government? Does it strike at the free market and cause investors to go elsewhere..I leave that to you to decide.

Alex
  #32  
Old 26-02-2007, 07:36 AM
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I am sorry that my posts are so long and that the moderators are put to reading so much to make sure its ok to print.
alex
  #33  
Old 26-02-2007, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
and tidal power? [snip]
alex
I believe tidal/wave power is an excellent alternative. When I was in NZ about 10 years ago, the tour went to some place where there was a narrow stretch of land that separated the Pacific on one side and Tasman on the other. As a result, there was a difference in water level of several meters. They were experimenting with simply letting the water from one side flow to the other through a turbine...what a brilliant idea. Water is so much denser than air I don't know why they don't spend more money on it. The technology is similar to existing hydroelectric except the available pressure would be less, a few meters of head of water. At least it should be possible to mount the generators under water or in a cave or something, which would be easier to get people to accept than a heap of turbines on the hillside.
  #34  
Old 26-02-2007, 08:39 AM
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An interesting device.
Energetech’s Wave Energy Generator off Port Kembla
http://www.energetech.com.au/index.h...tent/port.html
  #35  
Old 26-02-2007, 09:34 AM
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One on One..
Out of any approach tidal power seems to me probably to offer a great deal of hope. But so many of the alternatives are sidelined for various reasons and the problem of needing more energy that does not polute further remains. Sad when one sees projects like the one Glen posted (as well as the solar links) simply not being pushed harder.
I had a little laugh when I read that Glen's post about the wave system shows that it has a desalinator built in... mmm maybe we wont need the nuclear power stations for desalination after all... I know I know too expensive but this is a proto type it is not there to supply all of Australia it is there to show what else can be done when creative Australians get to work on a problem..We are the worlds leading inventors ..did you know that ..more per capita than anywhere else..and that does not take into account any of mine
Maybe an underwater dam is not such a silly idea and I suspect that with a two dam system power generation would be an easy inclusion.
The wave system no doubt does not need to be on a boat but it shows the energy available in a renewable source when one applies some cash to making it work.
Many alternatives are available and the question we should be asking of our Government all the time is why all the alternatives are not followed up.
I wonder if the wave system has received $500,000,000-00 to fund investigation as apparently has the carbon sequestration program enjoyed.. given that it can keep more carbon out of the air than the carbon sequestration move can ever ever achieve if any disagree thats fine but there are question and issues to deal with besides nuclear power..if the wave system has not received similar support we could ask why has it not received such support..its pretty "real" to my view.. so anyone not considering its application may find themselves being labled "not real"...some alternative energy supplies will be dead ducks and some will be winners, that the way things go.. but to give up because some lobby group leans on you is unforgivable ...those in power forget that voters often dont forgive until a Government has been in opposition for a long long time..
If $500,000,000 has bee allocated to carbon sequestration I wonder how much money has been tagged for other alternatives...must be double that you would think As if ..someone must have some figures they have come across I would again love to be proved wrong and that I am just a suspicious old fella seeing demons that do not exist.
Up here once there was a 50% subsidy for solar gear for prople with no alternative but petrol generators because of no grid power..that could of helped as a an excellent proto type having a community happy to work out the problems that will be found implementing this new approach.. but the subsidy has been reduced.more folk go with petrol and diesel now , I wonder why??.presumably the Government needs to save money to fund the carbon sequestration investigations..the investigation where to place nuclear power plants, trips overseas by outgoing Premiers to cement the deal already made that we have yet to be convinced will be best for us... give me the strenght to hold back the indignation and pick the pieces of fallen sky out of my brain.
alex
alex
  #36  
Old 26-02-2007, 06:46 PM
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Lots of info here:
http://www.worldenergy.org/wec-geis/...4/overview.asp
  #37  
Old 26-02-2007, 08:19 PM
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That’s at great link Glen . Had a little laugh when I saw “bio mass” I have not read it all yet but I bet that’s a scheme to collect our rubbish and get us to pay for it . Or to get an extra buck outta the trees grown to save the planet (from running out of paper) .
Heck I hope I am not turning “Green” but if think of the worm farm in Lismore at length you may understand my little laugh when I see some of the ventures as yellow cake is not the only one going for it as they say . But its clear to me that we will get nuclear and if we are to stand behind the product we sell we should really use it , and use it to our advantage . I mean cigarette companies boards of directors all smoke I imagine ,.. well if they don’t I would think about that … and if they do I bet they get their smokes free . Mr Howard said he would live next to a power station .. mmm he is in tune as a ex lawyer he would know the things like power lines , main roads, flight paths, railway lines, overlooking a factory complex and even power stations do stop saleability of property.. always difficult to sell irrespective of frequent price reduction to attract a buyer..That is not “not real” that is the real world .
So if the world cant be perfect I ask what are we the Mums and Dads going to get in return for letting this happen . Compensation for being sold a pup . Free water? Cheap transport, good education, security, a good health system, human security .. you bet that’s the way it works .
Alex
  #38  
Old 26-02-2007, 09:37 PM
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I think Al Gore rocks but sadly he had crap advisor's when he was the US vice President, he could have done much, much more back then. But I do hope he gives the presidential contest another go, all the other candidates are same old, same old.

Sadly I am of the belief that change has to be legislated, from the pollies. I think too many of us are not prepared to change our life styles voluntarily to help solve the problem of global warming. Thank you unrestrained consumerism.
  #39  
Old 27-02-2007, 05:27 AM
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Is the US a democracy? It costs $millions to run for president, then the president is controlled by the people who donated the millions! And he has a veto!
Is Australia a democracy? Basically the media owners "tell" people how to vote. The winners in this years NSW & Federal elections will be the people the media owners want in office.
  #40  
Old 27-02-2007, 05:55 AM
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A Clean Energy Future for Australia

Here are some ideas:
http://www.wwf.org.au/publications/c...future_report/
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