Blackhawk Down, Had Concerns

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi All,

My son is a Blackhawk pilot in Afghanistan. Yesterday I heard that a "bird" was down, 7 US soldiers killed.

My son is in the US Army.
He is okay. For some 13 hours I was concerned.
He did not respond to my emails. He is now in a poor coms area.

Then at 8:30 PM a message from his wife (in Germany) confirming all is well. Followed by an email from the flyboy himself.

Its not what a parent wants to experience too often.

The bird that went down was mechanical failure. Taliban automatically claim responsibility. They did harass the recovery aircraft and team.
They are dirty cowardly fighters, hitting an ambulance team.

No longer stressed
Cheers

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

Hi Marty,
I'm very glad to hear your son is safe.
Regards,
Brian.

[Baddad (Marty)]

Thanks for responding Brian.

Heard the weather is poor down there.

Regarding the Taliban. They also attack at funerals. They have no ethics at all. Its not a level playing field. The US and Australians have rules of engagement that they must abide by.

Cheers

[Ric]

Glad to hear he is ok Marty.

Stuff like that can be pretty stressful on the old ticker for sure.

[Astro_Bot]

Originally Posted by Baddad

They also attack at funerals. They have no ethics at all.

They have no honour. Worse, they don't even know what 'honour' is!

[PCH (Paul)]

Originally Posted by Astro_Bot

They have no honour. Worse, they don't even know what 'honour' is!

I'd be the first to say that I understand Marty's fear for his son's safety, so my thoughts are with you there Marty, and my hopes for his safe return.

But, if they (the T) were over here in our country, I'm guessing you guys would be among the first to say that 'whatever it takes to get them out' would be fair game. I'm fairly sure they didn't invite us into their country, so they're just doing what we would do to them.

And let's not forget that the Taliban were trained largely by the Brits and Yanks when it suited them to have a friendly local militia harrassing the Russians while it was their playing field in the 90s.

As for ethics and honour, - I imagine you're thinking about the way the 'allies' conducted themselves at Abu Ghraib prison when you talk about ethics and honour...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghr...prisoner_abuse

Let's be fair guys - and honest !

War is always terrible, but equally, there are always two sides to a story.

I don't normally get involved in these sort of debates, but this one eyed nonsense go my dander up - sorry mods.

[Octane (Humayun)]

Thanks for saying that, Paul. You put it eloquently.

I hope your son returns home safely, Marty.

H

[Astro_Bot]

@Paul: I think you misunderstand me completely and have been far too quick to criticise.

I spent 23 years serving my country including both Afghanistan and Iraq. I'm pretty sure I know more about this than you do.

As for ethics and honour, - I imagine you're thinking about the way the 'allies' conducted themselves at Abu Ghraib prison

The perpetrators were prosecuted. In contrast, the Taliban, who cut the heads off unarmed prisoners and video tape it, are just a barrel of laughs.

[casstony]

It's such a shame that area of Asia is mired in violence. They could earn a lot of foriegn income from tourism if it was a safe place to go, not to mention the obvious benefits of keeping one's legs and loved ones.

[PCH (Paul)]

@RG - I'm sorry if my remark/s caused offence. Certainly that wasn't my intention.

I could say more but in truth it probably wouldn't help, and would stray further from Marty's post.

Moving on ....

@Tony - coming back from the airport once quite recently, I had an Afghan taxi driver who talked to me at length about how beautiful Kabul and other cities used to be. From his descriptions of his homeland in the various seasons, he could have been talking about any well known European city. Trees, flowers, gardens, architecture, culture..... and so on. The sort of place you'd be happy to live in. A far cry from how it is now I imagine.

Tony, while these places have something we want, usually oil, but minerals or gold or whatever, there will never be peace.

Cheers,
Paul

[clive milne]

I suspect that if the troops on the ground came to understand the actual reasons they are putting their lives at risk, there would be no more war and more than one politician serving life in prison.

[Baddad (Marty)]

Hi All,

Thanks for the kind thoughts. Yes, its a touchy kind of subject. You people have your feelings on the subject. I appreciate the thoughts and control you have shown.

Unfortunately one of the IIS members has lost a family member in the actual crash that was reported.

I leave it to him to give details. It goes to show how close this war is to us all.

I'll have a chat with the above referred to member.

Cheers all and thanks again for the response.

[Gem (Grant)]

Originally Posted by clive milne

I suspect that if the troops on the ground came to understand the actual reasons they are putting their lives at risk, there would be no more war and more than one politician serving life in prison.

They probably have a better understanding than we do. They are there.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by Gem

They probably have a better understanding than we do. They are there.

Geopolitics is determined behind closed doors. The only truth to be found in the streets of kabul is how pointless and self defeating our current actions (there) are.

If you dig deep enough in to modern history you will find that the reasons for our recent wars are seldom the same as what is told to our troops, reported in the media, taught in schools or believed by the general public.... Afghanistan and Iraq are no exceptions here.

I think it is worth highlighting Iraq in particular simply because the the trail of political malfeasance is in the public record for anyone with the inclination to discover for themselves.

It is a much dirtier game than most people presume.

[Gem (Grant)]

I was not saying the politicians have it right (or wrong). I was merely stating that our troops in the field probably aren't blind political pawns. They can see what is going on better than us. A course of action can be right, even if it was not successful.

[Baddad (Marty)]

The entire situation of the Afghanistan conflict hinges on the following.
I support the thinking behind it. Although it is not as simple as it seems when put this way but it will give some insight as to the reasoning.

Afghanistan and neighbouring nations provide cover for the Taliban and various terrorist groups. I am not saying that these nations support the activities, just that the terrorists are able to gain support and shelter.

Terrorist targeted nations prefer to fight the terrorists on their turf rather than have innocent citizens be exposed to terrorist bombing etc.

Take the violence to their homes rather than our homes.

This was the initial reasoning. Unfortunately people have lost sight of that and are now mocking the politicians. They have a short memory.

How would these people react to a terrorist attack on their homes?

Without entering into the complexities of the war, this is the simplest way to justify what is happening. Therefore to withdraw troops appears to be a bad move.

Cheers

[rat156]

Glad to hear that your son is OK Marty.

I have just heard on the news that four Aussies have been hurt in an IED explosion, no names yet. I have friends over there who work in the Engineers regiment that supply the bomb techs for most of the Aus infantry. I don't know if any of them are hurt.

There is a comms blackout whenever anything like this happens until the family are informed. Never stops me from trying to get info though.

As to the people here who claim to know what all the wars are "really" about, safe and sound in their lounge rooms in one of the safest countries in the world, to be honest, you really have no clue at all. Do you really think that the Chief of the Defence Force would allow his troops to fight and die for spurious reasons? They have all been intelligent men who value their personnel more than their carreer, if the fight wasn't just or worth it they would have resigned in protest. Sometimes you just have to trust that some people know more that you do, or what you can read on the Internet.

Cheers
Stuart

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Glad to hear that your son is OK Marty.

I have just heard on the news that four Aussies have been hurt in an IED explosion, no names yet. I have friends over there who work in the Engineers regiment that supply the bomb techs for most of the Aus infantry. I don't know if any of them are hurt.

There is a comms blackout whenever anything like this happens until the family are informed. Never stops me from trying to get info though.

As to the people here who claim to know what all the wars are "really" about, safe and sound in their lounge rooms in one of the safest countries in the world, to be honest, you really have no clue at all. Do you really think that the Chief of the Defence Force would allow his troops to fight and die for spurious reasons? They have all been intelligent men who value their personnel more than their carreer, if the fight wasn't just or worth it they would have resigned in protest. Sometimes you just have to trust that some people know more that you do, or what you can read on the Internet.

Cheers
Stuart

Whilst any commander that has any ounce of leadership has the interests of his subordinates in mind he does what he is told to do. In the case of the Chief of Defence Force (CDF) he does what the government of the day tells him to do because he is elected into the position by government. He has the option to step down if he has a conflict of interest but that is career suicide and I don't recall any CDF whom has elected to step down from the position by choice. The men & women of the ADF serve the government of the day and carry out government policy, they don't have a choice on when or how they serve. We have true professionals in the ADF which are well trained and well respected by other serving countries in the MEAO and we can be proud of each and every one of them even if we don't agree with our countries involvement in these conflicts. The ADF is making a difference but whether the change lasts depends on the resolve of the people in these regions. Understand one area of the conflict, the Taliban opposes freedoms we take for granted, deprives women of their civil rights like education and medical care. That is worth fighting against. Yes, I understand there are other political motives at play in these conflicts.

[Zhou (Mick)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Do you really think that the Chief of the Defence Force would allow his troops to fight and die for spurious reasons? They have all been intelligent men who value their personnel more than their carreer, if the fight wasn't just or worth it they would have resigned in protest.

The chief of the defence force is answerable to the Minister of Defence and the Prime Minister. The various heads of the defence forces don't have to like or agree with the descision to go to war, their job is not policy but implimentation. If you join the defence force you are expected to follow orders, period.

Everyone has their own opinions about the war in Afghanistan. There is no doubt about it that the Taliban are the scum of the Earth and to eliminate their hate filled, anti-female, anti-freedom ideology would not only greatly benifit Afghanistan but also the world at large. However, the Taliban were around before 911 and the world generally didnt give two hoots about their oppression then.

Maybe the war is about politics, maybe it is about "liberating" Afghanistan, maybe it is about preventing terrorism, who knows? But one thing I do know is the Aussies in Afghanistan are doing a stirling job and regardless of what we might think of the motives of the pollies who started the conflict the work of our troops is professional and something to be proud of.

Peace Mick ex RAAF

[2stroke (Jay)]

Thats great news he is safe and well My cuzz is over there doing her 3rd term comms and my main worry is her being captured and raped to death. I always try and remind myself that there trained to handle these situations, though it doesn't always help. Having your son fly a moving bus must play havoc with your mind though, don't watch black hawk down lol

Anyhow thankgod this has being a campaign with very low causalities for our side Lets hope they pull our people out of "the world's crap hole" and get them back home safely. Lol there got to be more lead in that crap-hole place then sand these days after the years of fighting, maybe those scumbags will die of lead poisoning by the literal sense.