Will this mean goodbye to the Pony Club???

[bones]

Hi all, for those who use the Pony Club for stargazing, an application has been lodged with Gosford City Council for an agricultural high school with up to 100 students to be located on the lot on the northern side and adjacent to the Pony Club site at Mangrove Mountain. With a cost of $5.1M it would not seem like a small facility either as opposed to say a dwelling and associated sheds that one would expect on a rural farm. I perceive it would cause a problem with light pollution if they don’t turn the lights off at night. If this gets approved, do we have any other sites we can use on the Central Coast that contain relatively darker skies up that way? If not maybe all concerned should lodge a submission to Council about how it will affect our recreational pursuits associated with amateur astronomy. The DA number is DA42013/2012. The Council website is www.gosford.nsw.gov.au if you want to have a look. It’s on advertising and open to public submissions from Wednesday 11/4/2012 – Friday 11/5/2012.

Regards
Bones

[GTB_an_Owl (Geoff)]

very interesting Bones

by the way - happy birthday for the other day

geoff

[Deeno]

Yes, very interesting....

By my reckoning, we have 3 to 5 years before anything happens........

[Deeno]

Thanks for the heads up Bones.

Opposition to the development lodged!

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Wouldn't it be best to ask The Pony Club what would be best for them first? As an Incorporated entity, their charter would be to encourage and include groups from the wider community to make use of their facilities. This includes us Astro nuts. However, they too need to seek ways of increasing their revenue. They may see they would stand more to gain from having a school next door to them.

As people of science, why would you stand against a school being built? Just for our selfish recreation? We already drive in many cases several hours to all directions of the compass to get to dark skies - sadly on occasions we need to make way AGAIN to progress.

As mentioned, there's two to five years before anything happens. Time enough to locate a new site.

No I haven't been to the Pony Club. I mainly go to Katooma Airfield as it is easier for me to get their (it's a four hour round trip for me too). The Airfield itself is teetering on closing due to local councillor personal interests, even though the many groups that use the Airfield, including National Parks & Wildlife, the RFS & the Army, even the Scouts, all add their voices in support of the of keeping the Airfield open. We can only support the Body if the change that is pending is detrimental to it.

I may get roasted for my view, so be it. I don't want to see another dark site lost. Everyone with an interst in astronomy looses. And The Pony Club is one of the most popular too. But you can't go against building a new school just because it clashes with our fun. If the Pony Club is in favour of the school, what then too?

[AstralTraveller (David)]

I feel your pain. At the moment they are talking about putting an international airport within 12km of my dark sky site. Of course we may be 'saved' by the state govt, who only want to put 25,000 houses on that site. (Yes that's right - circa 100,000 people right where there are no jobs.)

[Poita (Peter)]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

Wouldn't it be best to ask The Pony Club what would be best for them first? As an Incorporated entity, their charter would be to encourage and include groups from the wider community to make use of their facilities. This includes us Astro nuts. However, they too need to seek ways of increasing their revenue. They may see they would stand more to gain from having a school next door to them.

As people of science, why would you stand against a school being built? Just for our selfish recreation? We already drive in many cases several hours to all directions of the compass to get to dark skies - sadly on occasions we need to make way AGAIN to progress.

As mentioned, there's two to five years before anything happens. Time enough to locate a new site.

No I haven't been to the Pony Club. I mainly go to Katooma Airfield as it is easier for me to get their (it's a four hour round trip for me too). The Airfield itself is teetering on closing due to local councillor personal interests, even though the many groups that use the Airfield, including National Parks & Wildlife, the RFS & the Army, even the Scouts, all add their voices in support of the of keeping the Airfield open. We can only support the Body if the change that is pending is detrimental to it.

I may get roasted for my view, so be it. I don't want to see another dark site lost. Everyone with an interst in astronomy looses. And The Pony Club is one of the most popular too. But you can't go against building a new school just because it clashes with our fun. If the Pony Club is in favour of the school, what then too?

I think it would be valuable to talk to the developers of the school and see if a plan could be made that would save the school money by using lighting that costs less to run and doesn't spoil the night sky.
Hell, the school could put in an observatory!

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Peter, you may have found the silver lining.

I don't want to see us loose The Pony Club. Maybe engaging with the Developer, and the School is an option.

Alex.

[GTB_an_Owl (Geoff)]

To ALL

the Pony Club site is not part of the development - it is next door.

the Pony Club will still be there - maybe just a bit brighter

i personally think it will have trouble getting through Council due to its proximity to the catchment area

geoff

[bones]

I took a look at this development today at Council. The building/s are proposed at 3,362m2 in size not including other outside areas that could/would be lit up. It seems to be set back roughly the same distance from Wisemans Ferry Road as the Pony Club clubhouse. Of the 100 students the application states that they will cater for 75-80 students being live-in / boarding at the facility during school terms. Somehow I don't think up to 80 students will bother to turn their lights off because of a few people next door with their scopes. This definitely equates to lights on at night which equals light pollution. Although we probably couldn't stop the development on the basis amateur astronomy pursuits on the neighbouring Pony Club site, if enough submissions were received to state our case it might have to go to a full Council meeting for a determination. If the Councillors then knew of the difficulty in finding an alternative suitable darkish sky site up around Mangrove Mountain, then maybe if it is to be approved we could request that they resolve to helping us find that alternative site Mr Owl and Rick and others have been looking for on public land up that way? Worth a thought.
Bones.

[Deeno]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

Wouldn't it be best to ask The Pony Club what would be best for them first? As an Incorporated entity, their charter would be to encourage and include groups from the wider community to make use of their facilities.

Quite frankly, I don't see what benefits the Pony club will gain from a agricultural school being built next door, apart from the odd late night party on their grounds. Maybe you didn't read the original post carefully enough? It was quite clear about it being next door.

Originally Posted by mental4astro

This includes us Astro nuts. However, they too need to seek ways of increasing their revenue. They may see they would stand more to gain from having a school next door to them.

Maybe the students will bring their ponies with them and join up

Originally Posted by mental4astro

As people of science, why would you stand against a school being built? Just for our selfish recreation? We already drive in many cases several hours to all directions of the compass to get to dark skies - sadly on occasions we need to make way AGAIN to progress.

Science and recreation? I have a RIGHT to protest to my selfish one night a month of sanity. If Gosford Council can dismiss a 10 000 plus petition to the closure of Gosford Primary School to cram it into the limited space of Henry Kendal High, then I doubt one lonely email from an amateur astronomer over the concerns of light pollution will even get read!
The school WILL be built...somewhere. So who's stopping what?

Originally Posted by mental4astro

As mentioned, there's two to five years before anything happens. Time enough to locate a new site.

I did mention something like that.
Some of the local guys found a great location on council land that we are free to use but, we can't fix up the access at our own cost?
So if we all go out and buy four wheel drives we have a great location!

Originally Posted by mental4astro

No I haven't been to the Pony Club.

Obviously

Originally Posted by mental4astro

I mainly go to Katooma Airfield as it is easier for me to get their (it's a four hour round trip for me too).

Oh, something you know something about........

Originally Posted by mental4astro

The Airfield itself is teetering on closing due to local councillor personal interests, even though the many groups that use the Airfield, including National Parks & Wildlife, the RFS & the Army, even the Scouts, all add their voices in support of the of keeping the Airfield open. We can only support the Body if the change that is pending is detrimental to it.

Sorry
Can't comment. Never been there.
Maybe you should start a thread........

Originally Posted by mental4astro

I may get roasted for my view,

Originally Posted by mental4astro

so be it. I don't want to see another dark site lost. Everyone with an interst in astronomy looses. And The Pony Club is one of the most popular too. But you can't go against building a new school just because it clashes with our fun. If the Pony Club is in favour of the school, what then too?

Thanks for the lecture.......

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Hey all hows about instead of worring about what might happen and worry about what will happen and thats when the new school ( I for one encourage education ) is built , eg LIGHT POLLUTION !!! , hows about at the planning stages you fellow amateure astronomers put forward " light shield technology " . .
Thats what needs to happen I think , and thats showing the people behind this 5.1 million dollars being spent is , is that a huge saving can be had if "light cut off fixtures" are installed at the build stage , ( $5 ) each will save probably $10,000 a year in power bills . , Yep money talks ..
Before I left NZ to work over here in this beautiful continent , we had the same problem at my old club , the Northland Astro Society in Whangarei with fellow clubs security? lights encroaching on our dark ( ish ) night sky , but with a little education and a good dark sky to show the differance that light pollution causes , , but mainly the old chestnut , BIG $$$ 's savings to be had by all , worked wonders .
Just a thought . I worked for us I hope to see how this pans out for you all . Go for it ..
Brian.