Returning to Astronomy

[Bassman (Paul)]

I am looking at returning to Astronomy after a 20 year absence. My previous scope was a Celestron 8" which did a sterling job till I found I wanted more. There was an issue with stars flaring. Possibly due to my lack of collimation skills at the time or lack of cool down time from a hot Mallee environment.

I am after something portable with crisp views of planets when they are up, open clusters, multi-coloured doubles, I may get into double star viewing, I am not sure. Taking the odd pic of a nebula (Messier), 35mm or digital. My only camera is a 30 year old Pentax MG. Something that is also relatively easy to align. I had a trick at my mother in-laws place in Swan Hill to align the Celestron's wedge with the toilet vent pipes of the house north of us. that gave me a drift free night. it took me two hours to discover this on the first night setup.

Money is possibly no object, though I do want to be wise. Something that can fit in the boot (fold down seats) of a Falcon. I like the idea of a 5" Takahashi (are six inches portable?) though keep swing back to the modern day CATs. The Tak CN212 looks like it ticks all the boxes though I have told it is too finicky in collimating and cleaning. Especially when swapping between modes (cassegrain and newtonian) something I am told you should not do. A scope designed for a permanent dust free setup.

Open for advice as I roam between a rural (Swan Hill) and semi rural (Dandenongs) environments, wet and dry. Thus I find it a little difficult to attend astronomy clubs or parties.

I have not ruled out William Optics though know nothing about them or any others. Astro Physics evidently have such a long lead time I think that maybe impractical. I keep mention the big refractor manufacturers, though Meade and others is in there with a chance.

Kind regards,

Paul.

[Paul Haese]

The 150 Tak is pretty big but not impossible to lift. The 130 is pretty nice too. As for mount that is the real question. You can use a Losmandy G11 to carry a 130 but would probably need something bigger to carry a 150 for imaging. AP mounts are also pretty good and don't require a computer to run them. If you want precision then go for the PMX or PME from software bisque. These mounts are fantastic but need to be computer controlled for operation.

Of the three scopes you mentioned the Tak is easier to get hold of and is better than a Williams optic. The AP is probably the choice pick but the lead time is a pain.

[CDKPhil]

Hi Paul
I was in the same position as you are earlier this year. I have not been into astronomy for quite a while. I now have time and the money to get right back into it. It has been a long process of elimination deciding on the right OTA and mount combo.
I would suggest you do a lot of reading and comparing the specs on the different equipment that is out there. I had a list of what was important to me and tried to find the equipment that met those requirements.
You have done the right thing asking questions on this forum, there are plenty of people here who have extensive knowledge and experience with astronomy equipment.( unfortunately I am not one of them.) maybe in a few years).
Setting a budget was one of my first issues, it seams to keep growing, there is so much cool stuff out there it is hard to know when to stop.

I hope you find the answers you are looking for. There are some great people on this site who are willing to help.


Cheers
Phil

[gregbradley]

Good advice from Phil.

Work out exactly what you want as a requirement (you've mentioned some things like portability, looking at the planets, perhaps some imaging). As well as a budget.

APO refractors are hard to beat. But they get expensive quickly.

I have a TEC180FL and I would regard that as about the limit for portability. It fits in its case in the back of a Toyota Prado but I don't think it would fit in a Falcon. Perhaps sideways in the back seat. The case is about 1.8 metres long.

As far as APOs go here are the popular ones:

1. TEC140 - constantly gets rave reviews about visual and is an awesome imaging machine. US$5500. Check with Yuri about availability but probably a few months. Sometimes for sale 2nd hand on Astromart for about US$4500 to $5000. Doesn't have the range of accessories Tak has.

2. Tak TOA. More expensive, heavy but top of the line performance and lots of accessories. Arguably the finest optics currently available. Certainly among the very top. A TOA150 would be portable assuming average fitness. It would need a sizeable mount. A Software Bisque PMX would be ideal. Tak EM400 is the usual mount it goes with. Software Bisque has more bells and whistles in their mounts. Tak is very accurate and user friendly but does not have the sophistication in the software that Software Bisque does.

3. TMB/APM. Probably best with the feathertouch focuser. Lots of happy customers.

4. AstroPhysics. Whilst you won't get one by putting your name on their list for years and years AP155's and AP130 GT's come up for sale often on Astromart. An AP155 usually goes for US$9500 and a 130GT for $6500. In fact there was a 130GT just recently for that.

These both need a similar mount as the TOA150. AP scopes are solidly made like Tak.

5. Then there are a fairly large number of high quality refractors that you would have to check out more thoroughly. William Optics, Vixen, TS, APM new Taiwanese APO, Stellarvue. Some brands have used TMB optics made by LZOS in Russia (a high end APO lens company) such as Stellarvue. Sometimes these are cheaper than if you got an APM/TMB with the same lens. For example there is a Stellarvue 152mm APO with a feathertouch focuser (the best) on Astromart for US$6200. That is a LZOS lens. New, an APM 152 is more like US$7500+.

Visually to get the sort of views you seem to want to see it sounds like you want a 6 inch APO for planetary along with a high quality barlow and some nice short focal length planetary eyepieces.

SCT's have evolved and now are coma free designs from both Meade and Celestron. Meade is called ACF and Celestron Edge HD. Both get consistently good reviews. If you want to do imaging you would get the scope only and mount it on a nice mount like above.

There are also specialised APOs for planetary. These are long focal length like 6 inch F12. You see AP models 2nd hand on Astromart for this routinely. Often about US$4500.

I hope this helps.

What mount is a whole other subject and just as detailed.
A good mount is vital for imaging and less vital but still important for visual. The usual rule is to overmount your scope. So you want a mount that has a higher load capacity than your planned use.

Greg.

[DavidTrap (David)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

AP mounts are also pretty good and don't require a computer to run them. If you want precision then go for the PMX or PME from software bisque. These mounts are fantastic but need to be computer controlled for operation.

I've certainly no complaints about the precision of an AP mount. Availability is often better at the moment given the US economy is in the doldrums.

I've no experience with paramounts, but would usually categorise them as a permanent mount. The original post talks about portability, so an AP or G-11 might be more appropriate.

DT

[Bassman (Paul)]

Thank you to everybody that replied. An astronomer who read this forum and others kindly invited myself down to his place to try out a couple of his scopes. One was TEC140 the other a 10"dob. I found this a very kind gesture and accepted. The out come was that I enjoyed looking at the field of stars in the refractor, nice tight little balls. The dob was brighter on the objects we viewed that night though I found the diffraction spikes on bright objects distracting. Objects we looked at where, Venus, Jupiter, Pleiades, Great Orion Nebula and asterism which we managed to see E & F stars, Sirius and its companion. Plus a period of wandering around looking at various star fields.

I think my money will be on a TAK 130 TOA at the moment, though I will rejoin the Astronomical Society of Victoria for the third time and hope to have a peek through a few more scopes at their dark sky site.

Support is also another valuable invisible requirement until needed.

If I go down the lines of a 5" or 6" refractor, what will I need for auto guiding? Do I need a separate scope for this? Something clamped to the outside of the TAK 130.

What does the group think of Tak mounts or as has been suggested go for a third party mount? If so what about support in Australia? I have heard of AP but none of the others. I am in unknown territory and need advice.

The dealer said I can use the software that comes with the mount or use "Sky".

Kind regards,

Paul.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Hi Paul,

Welcome to IIS!!!

Yours is a very familiar story - long hiatus followed by a reawakening. I did exactly the same thing a few years back and asked the same questions.

Just some very general advice from me.

Even though your initial post screams refractor, one of the most important questions is to decide FIRST what you really want to achieve in the hobby. This will be dictated by your passion for one particular activity or another; Observing, photography - deep sky vs solar system, comet/asteroid hunting, fixed or portable equipment etc. There are as many possibilities for equipment as combinations of these things = LOTS! The most limiting factor is usually budget. If you want to be a jack of all trades though, equipment choice will be harder IMO. I can't emphasise enough how important it is to make this decision - what do you really want to do?

In my case I chose, photography, deep sky, fixed equipment - easy choice cause that's my passion. I originally wanted portable stuff but soon realised that high level deep sky photography is very difficult if you have to set up & tear down (but certainly not impossible - see Mike Sidonio's amazing portfolio as proof). My budget wasn't unlimited but it was substantial so that meant I could choose top shelf equipment.

I'm sure you've already figured out who the top shelf vendors are so my only other advice is spend as much as you can - you get what you pay for. Deep space photography is arguably the most expensive path to take. Also, IMO, it's far more expensive to go the trial and error route than it is to buy top shelf in the first place. I've seen a few people spend small fortunes buying and selling equipment that isn't suited to their goals or because they're slaves to a bargain. Take your time and choose carefully.

As to what accessories you need to buy there are so many different options and opinions out there it's probably best to lurk on the various forums to see what like minded people - folks who have the same goal as you - are doing (and doing very well) and what they're using. I did exactly that for many months before I homed in on my initial purchases.

Cheers, Marcus

[gregbradley]

Hi-quality mounts that would handle a TOA130 and any reasonable upgrade from there (in case you want a bigger scope later) are:

Software Bisque PMX or PME.
AP 900 or 1200
G11 especially with the worm upgrades etc.
Tak EM400
ASA

There are other good mounts that are cheaper but they would be in the league of the above.

AP900 and PMX are largish but portable. Tak mounts don't have all the software and computer based gear that can fine tune the performance of the mount like Software Bisque or AP do but they are also natively very very accurate and their argument is their mounts don't need it.

If budget can allow it I'd go Software Bisque PMX. Its portable, it has every bell and whistle known to mankind and looks good! hehe.

You couldn't go wrong with AP or Tak either. G11 may need upgrading to be in the same league but there are lots who love em.

Yes you will need either an autoguiding camera or a self guiding camera.
SBIG are the only ones with self guiding cameras. A very handy feature although not so useful when using Ha filters.

Offaxis guiders are all the rage as they work so well once you set them up.

There are several guide cameras around from about AUD$350 (Orion or QHY5) to about US$650 (Starlight Express Lodestar or SBIG STi).
Also Starfish from Fishcamp Engineering (US$695) cooled version (US$995. SBIG ST402ME is cooled and USB 2, a bit heavy but probably the most sensitive (US$1495). You want something not too heavy, sensitive, able to do autodarks, bin 2x2, and lightweight and USB2 with fast downloads. Ideally it is cooled or very very low noise.

Greg.



a? If so what about support in Australia? I have heard of AP but none of the others. I am in unknown territory and need advice.

The dealer said I can use the software that comes with the mount or use "Sky".

Kind regards,

Paul.[/QUOTE]

[Bassman (Paul)]

Thank you again for the informative posts. I will read and re-read to gain as much as I can. To say money is no object is to a point. I have a budget of $20k to $30k for a portable setup. Where we currently live is in a forest between Emerald and Cockatoo in Victoria. It is my our wish to move out of the forest in the next couple of years and non-portable setup will be the dream observatory. At the moment this is not the case as we wait the sale of my Dad's old house.

We do suffer a reasonable amount of sky glow from Melbourne, there was a time when I could make out six stars in the Pleiades though now that is best four or five on a good night. I plane to use one of the local football fields or travel to either dark sky sight that the Astronomical Society of Victoria has at Heathcote or the the odd trip to Swan Hill to see the relatives.

Being a dissatisfied owner of a C8 I wanted less smudge and more contrasty images and stars as tight little balls. As much as I like deep sky, I just see the size of transporting a scope of this size that is necessary being cumbersome at the least. I found driving a 10" dob the other night as fidgety. Focusing was an issue. Possibly there are better focusers around.

Thank you for the reports on the mounts. I do not know if a Tak Em 400 Temma2 is portable or not. I will no do some research on the Software Bisque PMX. My prime objective is to have good images of the planets whilst making for any aperture shortfall by taking pics for a coffee table book.

As one post mentioned I have to decide whether I require a portable or fixed mount. At the moment it is portable though this could change in a couple to a few years. This is something I will have to ponder some more. From what has been said I have gleaned a few ideas and noteworthiness of some instruments and their mounts.

Thank you. Please keep the posts coming.

Paul.

[Poita (Peter)]

A temma2 is extremely portable, I'd have one if I could afford it, not sure what it's rating is though.