Eyepiece Sugguestion for anniversary gift

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #1 12-09-2011, 03:56 PM

Hi there,

It is our third anniversary coming up and since the theme for it is glass, I thought a new eyepiece (or two) for the wife would be the perfect gift.

She has a 10" skywatcher dobsonian (1200mm focal length, 254mm app, f4.7) and loves to look at nebulas, clusters and would like to get into galaxies. Its a push-pull non-goto scope too. It has two eyepieces, a 25mm which pretty much lives in it, and a 10mm which she does not think much of. And a barlow lens.

Over the past week, I have been doing some research on eyepieces and my goodness, its not a simple subject! So many options to choose from, and so many varying opinions. I even made a spreadsheet that calculated fields of views, exit pupils and the magnifications that various eyepieces would give, thinking this would help, but alas. Then again I have been told I do overthink and over analyzie things.

What can you suggest as being a couple of good additions to her range that suit her viewing interests?

Budget wise, the Ethos series is out (despite being very impressive on paper).

Also, am I understanding that true field of view is sometimes the same for eyepieces of differing focal length and magnification? So an object will not only be more magnified but also show more of the surrounding sky? eg Nagler 17 with a true field of view of 1.2 and mag of 71 will show more of the sky than a 25mm plossl with 1.1 true field of view and mag of 48?

Sorry for the all the questions, while I do try and understand her hobby a lot of it goes over my head.

I appreciated any advice you can give me. Thanks all

niko · #2 12-09-2011, 04:26 PM

I haven't got a useful suggestion, sorry - I just wanted to say what a really nice thought that is. You're a loving partner to go to the trouble of joining and hunting out the right advice.

Good on you and good luck!

koputai (Jason) · #3 12-09-2011, 05:29 PM

Nice thought Hamish.

I couldn't really go past a Televue Panoptic 24mm, and a Televue Nagler 13mm. Of course this depends on your budget, but these two will cost you around $300 each brand new.

Whack these two in to your spreadsheet and you'll find the Panoptic 24mm will give pretty much the same magnification as her current 25mm Plossl, but will give a 25% wider field of view, will be much crisper, and very easy on the eye. The Nagler 13mm will give almost double the magnification, and is very wide, the true field being close to the current 25mm Plossl.

These two would be a fantastic combination in that scope.

Cheers,
Jason.

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #4 13-09-2011, 08:01 AM

Thanks for that info Jason

. I should have mentioned that it is also capable of 2" eyepieces if that makes a difference to what you have suggested. I will do some research into that Panoptic and the Nagler 13mm. Not sure if I have done the calcuations correct or not, but it shows the Nagler as having a smaller true field of view than the current 25mm plossl. Also, is the 12mm eye relief going to be an issue? Though she does not wear glasses.

I have attached an image to my spreadsheet showing my maths on the various eyepieces.

Thanks again for your input and help.

http://www.rangiorafire.org.nz/scopesheet.GIF

koputai (Jason) · #5 13-09-2011, 08:12 AM

Your spreadsheet looks about right Hamish.

Yes, the Nagler 13mm has a smaller true field than the 25mm Plossl, but don't forget, you've got almost twice the magnification. The Panoptic 24mm is the one you should be comparing with the existing 25mm Plossl, and as I said its advantages are a wider true field at almost the same magnification, the image quality will be significantly better, and the true field will be wider.

Cheers,
Jason.

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #6 13-09-2011, 12:43 PM

Thanks Jason. I've taken your recomendation and think I will go with the two eyepieces you have suggested. Reading the reviews of the Pan 24, it seems no one has a bad thing to say about them, and bang per buck just seem to be the winner. I see a couple of people saying get the Nagler 26, but for twice the price I dont think its worth it over the highly regarded Pan24.

I was toying with the idea of since the price of these two eyepieces comes to almost the price of the 13mm ethos, if I should just get that instead. Though looking at the true field of view I can see the flexibility that comes from having the two eyepieces and hence your suggestions.

Down the track, it seems the Pentax XW10/7 might be on the cards for her. Again, the comments about them in these forums seem to make them a pretty clear choice. I guess the XW7 may be better with Nagler 13 and the Pan 24?

Again, a big thanks for all your help. I am sure I owe you some beers or something!

koputai (Jason) · #7 13-09-2011, 01:20 PM

No worries Hamish. I'm sure not everyone will agree with me on these two, but they are both fab.

As far as the 10/7 decision goes, don't necessarily jump to the 7. As focal lengths get lower, the difference between them reduces as well. A 9-10mm is a good step from 13mm.

Cheers,
Jason.

BEVAN5433 (BEVAN) · #8 13-09-2011, 09:21 PM

Hamish why not consider the 100 deg Explore Scientific 9mm&14mm e.p. They are the clone of the TV ethos at half the price. Delivery was 6 Days direct from the States.They are excellent 2" eyepieces direct from E.S. Bevan

!6"Lightbridge mod TNT tracking
17mm type 4 Nagler
Baader eyepieces
Sky Scout
ES 9mm &14mm 2"eyepieces
Various other filters and eyepieces

GrahamL · #9 13-09-2011, 10:39 PM

Both those eyepieces Jason suggests would be a great choice for your wifes scope Hamish.

Aside great performance they are both very compact which isn't a bad thing in a 10 " scope, also both will accept the same 1.25 "
threaded filters .

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #10 14-09-2011, 04:51 AM

I'm waiting to get a shipping quote on the Panoptic 24, so I've locked that in.

As for the 13/14, its a toss up between the Nagler 13 and the Denk 14. I have pm'd Suzy to get her thoughts as I just found her posts regarding her considerations of these two eyepieces. It looks like she went with the Denk14 in the end, but I can't see any comments on what she thought of it.

The Exlpore Scientific look impressive and get great reviews. I am thinking though the size of them may be an issue in a 10" manual dob. It does have tension control but even so. As Graham pointed out, sticking to one size format may be better and the other eyepieces are alot more compact. Down the track since I was also looking at UHC filters for her, again sticking to the one size will mean only having to get one size of filters rather than two.

Again, thanks for your help.

sasup (Stacey) · #11 14-09-2011, 06:29 AM

13 ethos says I love you, like no other

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #12 14-09-2011, 07:15 AM

Quote:

13 ethos says I love you, like no other

LOL thanks for that Stacey. Now will I feel guility if I don't get her the 13 ethos......

xstream (John) · #13 14-09-2011, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JantarMantar

LOL thanks for that Stacey. Now will I feel guility if I don't get her the 13 ethos......

I'm sure you will.

Even the 21 Ethos is worth considering.

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #14 14-09-2011, 12:35 PM

Ah the path of temptation.... But since the two ethos eyepieces add up to around $1,300USD, which is quite a lot in NZ dollars, it makes them more expensive than her scope. So as good as these are, I think at this stage I will rule the ethos out due to price.

One thing on my side is that she does not read the equipment forums, so she may not even know about the ethos, so as long as no one at the observatory mentions them to her, I am in the clear!

As Jason and Graham said, she will be thrilled with the Panoptic and the nagler (or Denk). And it leaves me a bit of cash down to track for her Christmas present.... like the XW10.

Groboz (Gino) · #15 14-09-2011, 06:07 PM

I've recently purchased the 24 Pan and 13 Nag and I'm loving the views. Instead of the XW10 my 10mm TeleVue Delos should be here in the next day or two. From recent reviews I've read they are at least equal if not better than the Pentax in specs and quality and $339 at Bintel at the moment. They also have the advantage of being parfocal with the other 2 TV eyepieces which means you can swap them over without having to refocus each time. A real bonus when you're upping the magnification on a fast moving object.

Something to consider.

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #16 15-09-2011, 09:18 AM

Thanks for that tip on the Delos Groboz, I would not have thought about the refocusing problem. Will have a look at those Delos later in the year.

It sounds like that Pan24 and the Nagler13 is a winning combo. Then I think I can't go wrong either with the Pan24/Denk14 combo either. I have just got my costs in and either way its looking to be around $900NZD for the two eyepieces landed and duty paid for in NZ. So am off to the bank today to top up the credit card so I can do the order.

Again, a massive thanks to you all for all your input and advice.

I will be sure to get the wife to place some comments and her thoughts on the eyepieces once she gets them to help other people who may be in the same boat.

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #17 15-09-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JantarMantar

Thanks for that tip on the Delos Groboz, I would not have thought about the refocusing problem. Will have a look at those Delos later in the year.

It sounds like that Pan24 and the Nagler13 is a winning combo. Then I think I can't go wrong either with the Pan24/Denk14 combo either. I have just got my costs in and either way its looking to be around $900NZD for the two eyepieces landed and duty paid for in NZ. So am off to the bank today to top up the credit card so I can do the order.

Again, a massive thanks to you all for all your input and advice.

I will be sure to get the wife to place some comments and her thoughts on the eyepieces once she gets them to help other people who may be in the same boat.

Hi,

I am assuming that because it is only your third anniversary your wife is fairly young. ie < 35. However before you drop your hard earned $NZ 900 can you (if you dont mind) tell me how old your wife is and if she wears glasses at all?

The 24mm Panoptic and 13mm Nagler are both great eyepieces but neither are suitable for use with glasses on. They also may not be a great choice for someone > 40 who may develop astigmatism in their own eye in the short to medium term. If she doesnt need glasses the 24mm Pano is a great choice. If she does need glasses the 21mm Denkmeier or the 22mm Vixen LVW would clearly be better choices.

The 13mm Nagler and 14mm Denkmeier are very diffferent eyepieces. The 14mm Denkmeier clearly outdoes the 13mm Nagler in terms of comfort, contrast, light throughput, on axis sharpness and neutral (whiter) colour fidelity. The Nagler is smaller, lighter and has a greater FOV. You need to consider which performance criteria are likely to be the most important to her and base your purchase decision on that. I have used both pretty extensively and I personally prefer the 14mm Denkmeier. I don't own either because I have a 12mm Nagler T4, a 13mm ETHOS and a 14mm Pentax XW. Of those that I own in my F4.5 newtonians I prefer the 14mm Pentax XW combined with a paracorr. If I didn't own those 3 and was buying from scratch I would be buying the 14mm Denkmeier. That all having been said the 13mm Nagler is still a very fine eyepiece and your wife would be very happy with it.

In regard to the 10mm eyepieces the 10mm Pentax XW/XL's have IMO been the benchmark at this focal length for more than 10 years. It has taken Televue almost 10 years to catch up to what Pentax were producing in terms of coatings and glass types when they produced the 13mm ETHOS in 2007. The new Delos uses the same technology as the ETHOS in this regard. Also keep in mind that 50% of Americans (Cloudy Nights) rate eyepieces from the heart and will rate an American grown product ahead of the competition, even though it might not be. Any differences between the 10mm DELOS and the 10mm Pentax XW will be very subtle at best IMO.

The refocusing issue is a complete NON ISSUE IMO. I have 20 + eyepieces the majority of which are not parfocal. I just put them in and refocus. It is no issue whatsover IMO. If refocusing is an issue to you or your wife you can make all of your eyepieces parfocal by putting a 10 cent rubber "O" ring on the barrel of each eyepiece in the correct position and using the "O" ring as a barrel stop.

Cheers,
John B

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #18 15-09-2011, 08:08 PM

Its safe to talk cause she is outside with the scope at the moment

Thanks for such an in depth response John and taking the time to do it. She is 35 and does not wear glasses. So stick with the Pan 24?

The eye relief on the nagler 13 was something that crossed my mind and I did wonder that if she ever did need glasses down the track that it could be an issue with this eyepiece. I did ask her (pretending I was reading an article from her Aust Sky & Telescope) if she had the choice between two eyepieces based on what you said, her reply was "well I guess I would have to get both to evaluate". A good answer, but not a particulary helpful one in this case.

I read your advice given to Suzy when she was in the same boat and I understand she ended up going with the Denkmeier 14. It was interesting to see your comment that if you were starting from scratch you would get the Denkmeier. Do you rate it more than the Ethos 13?

One thing that did cross my mind is that since the Denk is a 14 vs the Nagler being 13, will the lower mangnification on the Denk effectively give approximatley the same field of view as the nagler?

She did say that she wished her current 25mm plossl had a wider field of view tonight, which makes me think that the Pan 24 you have all sugguested is a winner.

All the reviews or comments on the Pentax XW10 I have seen seem to rave about this eyepeice, it certainly sounds like a amazing eyepiece to have. I had pretty much settled on that for Christmas till I read Groboz comments and thought I had best do some more research on the topic.

Its certainly been a much more involved and complex decision than I thought it would be. There are so many variables to take into consideration and though while I can look at specs on a spreadsheet, it is from users like yourself and people in this forum who give the best hands on advice, which at the end of the day is what is about.

Best dash, it sounds like I am needed to help bring the scope in.

JantarMantar (Hamish) · #19 16-09-2011, 12:13 PM

Well its done. I was starting to ask too many questions of her and she was getting suspicious, I think she might be onto me.....

In the end I went with the
24mm Panoptic
14mm Denkmeier

It was a tough call between that and the Nagler 13, in the end a review I read and John's comments tipped it ever so slightly in favour on the Denk, though I can't help but wonder what the Nagler would have been like. Bang per buck the Nagler may have been the way to go in the end being $50USD cheaper.

Again, thanks for your help and I will get her to post her thoughts once they arrive.

Cheers
Hamish

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #20 16-09-2011, 03:44 PM

Hi Hamish,

Your wife will be very happy with your choices. I have little doubt she would also have been happy with the 13mm Nagler.

Quote:

I read your advice given to Suzy when she was in the same boat and I understand she ended up going with the Denkmeier 14. It was interesting to see your comment that if you were starting from scratch you would get the Denkmeier. Do you rate it more than the Ethos 13?

The 14mm Denkmeier and 13mm ETHOS are very different. The Denkmeier outdoes the 13mm ETHOS ever so slightly in terms of contrast, light transmission and on axis sharpness. These are criteria which are important to me. It is also smaller than the 13mm ETHOS, has much more eye relief and is more comfortable to use. The 13mm ETHOS has a MUCH larger FOV. I am pretty comfortable with a FOV around 65 deg to 70 deg. The 14mm Denkmeier whilst its apparent FOV is stated at 65 deg it is a touch more than this and just under 70 deg.

If I could only have one of the two, I would choose the 14mm Denkmeier over the 13mm ETHOS, by a small margin.

Cheers,
John B