India-Pakistan border visible from space

[SkyViking (Rolf)]

It seems the floodlit border area between India and Pakistan has been photographed from the ISS. It looks quite spectacular but it's really quite sad I think:

http://www.universetoday.com/88740/i...le-from-space/

[mozzie (Peter)]

wow !!!!! thanks great shot...

[netwolf]

Just amazing, food for thought like a river of blood that was perhaps the greatest mistake we ever made. So many millons died in the formation of this border. So many seperated from there homes and families. And so much wasted money spet on miltary and army to keep this border going. Money which could be better spent on education and helping the poor and needy. I just hope that the political vultures do not use this to further there cause of dividing people further for there own dominance.

[gary]

Hi Rolf,

Thanks for the link. I have traveled throughout this region and appreciate first-hand the
tensions between these two neighbours, though this photograph brings the divide into
relief.

The lower half of the photograph, beneath the orange border will be Pakistan and
the brightest lights on the border will be the city of Lahore. Not far from there
is the border crossing at Wagah, which is the only road border crossing between
the two countries and which opens every day to much ceremony and in many ways
acts as a relief valve.

One can also make out on the image what would be the famous Grand Trunk Road,
what the locals often refer to simply as the GT Road, which snakes its way across
northern India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, joining the major cities.

The Indians planned to build a couple of thousand km of floodlighting along the
border. Whereas the south is mostly flat desert, the far north in the Karakoram Ranges
contains a large percentage of the world's highest peaks and though it is spectacularly
beautiful, outside of the occasional lush valley, it is a harsh, shadeless, unforgiving
place and there are continual avalanches and rockfalls and so extending the
lighting through there would prove impossible. It is these same regions where the border
is also most disputed.

[gary]

So one is not left with the impression that these parts of the world aren't totally
lost to light pollution, below is a link from one of our Pakistani customers who
is a member of the Karachi Astronomical Society.

This group has a spectacular dark sky location outside of Karachi in a forbidding barren
landscape known as the Hingol National Park.

However, I particularly like the image in the link below taken from much further
north in the country at an idyllic place called Ferry Meadows showing the infamous
8126m peak of Nanga Parbat - also known as "The Killer Mountain". Even the
road by jeep to places such as Fairy Meadows is an adventure in itself and not for
the faint hearted. But at these altitudes, the skies are magnificent.

Link to images here (highly recommended) -
http://www.pakwheels.com/forums/road...-priceless-gem

[renormalised (Carl)]

An indictment on the mindless madness and sheer stupidity that we seem to allow ourselves to be infected with and what unscrupulous politicians take advantage of all the time. This folly isn't going to improve security along the India/Pakistan border, or any other border for that matter. Instead of reacting to the problems we have, we should be acting to remedy them by attacking the problems at their roots. However, the politicians aren't going to do this because they're profiting from the current situation, as are various corporations around the world (but mainly in the US) peddling their wares in promoting discourse and death.

We can change and remove this sort of rank madness from our world but we have to be willing to want to remove it.

[Ric]

An amazing image.

After seeing that I will never grumble about the miniscule amount of skyglow that I sometimes notice from Canberra in the west.

[Gem (Grant)]

Originally Posted by Ric

An amazing image.

After seeing that I will never grumble about the miniscule amount of skyglow that I sometimes notice from Canberra in the west.

Hey! Some of us observe in that sky glow!!!

[Ric]

I used to as well Grant. I used to have neighbours who left on enough outside lighting to be seen from space as well.

Then they would fight and scream all night as well.


I guess I'm spoilt these days with the peace and dark.

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by gary

However, I particularly like the image in the link below taken from much further north in the country at an idyllic place called Ferry Meadows showing the infamous
8126m peak of Nanga Parbat - also known as "The Killer Mountain". Even the
road by jeep to places such as Fairy Meadows is an adventure in itself and not for the faint hearted. But at these altitudes, the skies are magnificent.

Hey Gary;
Ought to check out the History Channel doco "IRT Deadliest Roads" …. some real hair-raisers of the India-Pakistan Punjabi regional roads in that one !!
The 13,00 foot Rohtang Pass road from Manali being one of them !

Cheers

[gary]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Hey Gary;
Ought to check out the History Channel doco "IRT Deadliest Roads" …. some real hair-raisers of the India-Pakistan Punjabi regional roads in that one !!
The 13,00 foot Rohtang Pass road from Manali being one of them !

Cheers

Thanks Craig,

I will definitely need to check out the series.

I've journeyed on roads throughout the Karakoram Mountains and the mountains
themselves are predominantly crumbling gravel intersected by glaciers and glacial
melt. With monotonous regularity, you encounter vehicles that have either gone
over the edge of a cliff or are in some other predicament. Avalanches are everyday
occurrences and even maintaining the roads exacts a considerable death toll
in workers. For example, over 1000 Pakistani and Chinese workers lost their
lives constructing the Karakoram Highway (KKH) which opened in 1979.
I've been along it up to the Khunjerab Pass on the Chinese Border which is
at 4693m (15,397 feet).

But some of the more hair-raising roads are those that traverse their way into
the various valleys around places such as Gilgit and Hunza. The roads are
impossibly narrow, the drops are impossibly far and the amount of rock and
mountain above and below you is intimidating. Some of the bridge crossings
are extraordinary, particularly the rickety suspension bridges which often
cross raging torrents.

At times I have been in a Willys Jeep with a driver where we have encountered part
of the one-lane narrow road scratched into the side of the mountain that has disappeared.
Undeterred and despite the obvious peril where a slip would absolutely result
in plummeting several thousand feet to our deaths, the driver has gone up the side of
the landslide at a precarious angle to traverse the missing section.

I've traveled with a friend and locals on the back of a 4WD ute filled with
supplies where when we have gone through rough hewn tunnels, one of the locals has
grasped my head and pulled it down as far as it would go to avoid being clouted
by the rocks jutting out of the roof, which pass some centimeters above you.
My friends "seat" has been perched on the end of timbers jutting out beyond
the back of the ute and as we've round narrow one lane hairpin corners, I've
looked back at him as he is suspended momentarily thousands of feet
above thin air.

What is particularly exciting is when you do encounter someone coming the
other way and either have to back-up or worse still attempt to pass.

Whenever a local says they are about to do something, they will punctuate it
with the word "Inshallah" - if God wills it - and this somewhat fatalistic view of the
world seems to largely dictate the driving styles and the risks people take there.

For example, consider this short video showing part of the way up to Fairy Meadows
which gives one a small sense of what it is like (highly recommended) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzMnt...eature=related

[CraigS]

Sounds like you could star in the next series, there Gary !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzMnt...eature=related

Double yikes !!

Its hard to visualise just how scary the (3,000 metres-odd?) drop-offs over the sides of these roads really are .. but as you say, even more scary is what seems to happen when you meet a car (or truck .. or bus) coming in the opposite direction !

Between rockfalls, snowfalls and full-on 'streams' (rivers?), crossing these dirt roads, and local folk ... angry from having to follow slow-movers up the road, it certainly sounds like one of those experiences fully worthy of TV viewing (for wimps like me !)

Sorry for hijacking this thread (a little bit), but the views from the space-station, as spectacular as they may be for astronomers, couldn't really compare to the ground-based experience of peering over the edge and losing one's balance momentarily !

Perhaps a good activity for those young enough to not have fully experienced the sheer terror of realising one's vulnerability on such roads !?!

Cheers

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by gary

For example, consider this short video showing part of the way up to Fairy Meadows
which gives one a small sense of what it is like (highly recommended) -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzMnt...eature=related

That is insane

Anything you haven't done Gary

What about this..?

[gary]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

That is insane

Anything you haven't done Gary

What about this..?

Hi Mike,

LOL!

That does look dangerous and I definitely wouldn't try that.

A man could get an awful case of rope burn in all the worst places.
And you would definitely have to watch for where they tie that vine on.

The guy at the end of the video did well to survive the ground bounce.

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

Gary that report of travel in the Karakoram is simply awesome.

and that video clip is hair raising..
and here I was thinking that the drive from Mittagong to Wombeyan Caves was hairy

(BTW in some parts its not all that different, though the drop may only be a few hundred meters!)

as for the India Pakistan border-here's an ad I saw on Indian TV some years ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAISXd2jmVw

sad its only an ad

[netwolf]

Gary that is a real nice read, any place you have not been to. Having been born in India my only regreat is not having seen more of it. Every time I go, i have little time away from family. Sometimes I wish I could go there as a tourist.

Narayan, that is an inspiring ad, it is a shame that as adults we lose that wonder and innocence. The world was so much better when i did not know as much, it felt safer. As we grow so do our insecurities.

One of my favourite songs from the film Refugee speaks volumes on the matter.

panchhi nadiya pawan ke jhonke, koi sarhad na inhe roke
sarhad insano ke liye hain, socho tumne aur maine kya paya insan hoke

Translated (roughly).
The birds, the rivers and the breaze, no border can stop them nor inhibit them. Borders are for people, think what have we gained by being human.


Inshallah some day we shall not just admire nature and the universe but learn from it the leasons it has to teach us. Lest we be doomed to keep repeating the past.