Was Galileo a plagiarist?

[Pinwheel (Doug)]

On a documentary two weeks ago on SBS it was stated that Galileo overheard a conversation at the ship docks of a Dutch man bringing a new invention to be show the Navy called a Dutch spyglass. The idea of seeing invading ships 2 hours away appealed to the War department. Galileo quickly went back to his home a ground up a crude lens with a cannon ball, slapped it in a tube a claimed the invention before the Dutch visitor got an appointment to show his Spyglass.

So was Galileo the man we all respect or was he a bit of a conman?

[koputai (Jason)]

Or an entrepreneur? Well, that's what we call them these days.

Cheers,
Jason.

[rmcconachy]

I could be wrong (always a fair chance!) but I don't think Galileo is generally credited with inventing the telescope. He may have improved on the other designs of the time (invented by Hans Lippershey or somebody else <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Lippershey>) but his main claim to fame is that he turned hs scope towards the heavens at night and published records of what he saw (the last bit is important). Galileo's observations of the Galilean moons orbiting Jupiter (i.e., proof that not everything in the heavens revolved around the Earth) was a very big deal and along with his other writings got him into a mite of trouble with the church.

[CraigS]

I don't know for sure, but I for one, would find it hard to believe that no-one before Galileo, noticed that a blob of convex glass magnifies an image.

What he demonstrated successfully, was what he could do with it.

There were many, many other things this guy did, and revealed for us.

Using terms like 'conman' and 'plagiarist', sounds very much like imposing modern day concepts and values upon someone who actually made a difference in shaping the world we live in.

He also faced up to The Inquisition, resulting in censorship of his work and being put on trial for heresy, because of his championing of Copernicus' Heliocentric model.

These are achievements made during his lifetime, and stand as major achievements for humanity, overall.

In-arrears judgements, made some 380 years later, based on today's values, would seem to be a little harsh.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by CraigS

I don't know for sure, but I for one, would find it hard to believe that no-one before Galileo, noticed that a blob of convex glass magnifies an image.

What he demonstrated successfully, was what he could do with it.

There were many, many other things this guy did, and revealed for us.

Using terms like 'conman' and 'plagiarist', sounds very much like imposing modern day concepts and values upon someone who actually made a difference in shaping the world we live in.

He also faced up to The Inquisition, resulting in censorship of his work and being put on trial for heresy, because of his championing of Copernicus' Heliocentric model.

These are achievements made during his lifetime, and stand as major achievements for humanity, even in his own life-time.

In-arrears judgements, made some 380 years later, based on today's values today, would seem to be a little harsh.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers

Eeeeeexactly! Viva Italia

[bobson (Bob)]

CraigS
Using terms like 'conman' and 'plagiarist', sounds very much like imposing modern day concepts and values upon someone who actually made a difference in shaping the world we live in.

I agree...

Interesting how could you then say something like this for someone like Nikola Tesla:

CraigS
Tesla was a businessman, first and foremost.

[Waxing_Gibbous (Peter)]

Lipenzhanner ot whatjever his name was, generally credited with the invention of the refracting 'scope.
It was called a "Dutch Trunke" for a while.
It's first recorded use ,IIRC, was not watching for invading fleets, but reading the flags on returning merchant ships to ascertain the quantity / quality of their cargo.
Savvy brokers could then invest in whatever ship had the best goodies.
This may be apochryphal, but it seems to suit the ethos of the time (no pun intended).

Galileo was the first person (we know of) to turn it skyward and systematically record his findings, though the Englishman Herriot describes viewing the moon through his "Dutch Trunke" at about the same time.

In any case, Lipenschlotzenhommer and Dutch Trunke don't quite trip off the tounge in the same way as Gallileo and 'Telescope', so I suspect an early marketing 'face plant', may have something to do with it.

[Archy (George)]

[QUOTE=CraigS;711625]I don't know for sure, but I for one, would find it hard to believe that no-one before Galileo, noticed that a blob of convex glass magnifies an image.

I have seen in the museum at Rhodes, Greece, a set of lenses, that date well before the birth of Christ: so what you say is true.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Galileo found a better use for a weapon of war!

Give the man a Nobel Peace Prize!!!

Same with Newton and the 'Newtonian' Reflector.
He didn't invent the reflecting telescope. James Gregory registered the design as a 'Gregorian' in 1663 but none were actually built until Robert Hooke made one in 1673.

But we credit Newton for the reflecting telescope because he made the first actual working model based on Gregory's idea in 1668 but vastly improved on it and made it popular.

In 1672 Cassegrain made his own design too.

The years 1663 through to 1673 were certainly a busy time for building and designing of telescopes!

Articles regarding the principles of Refractors and Reflectors have been around since the 11th century!

[CraigS]

Interesting.

I'm really enjoying this thread. Thanks for the original post, Doug.

If I read Doug's post carefully, what he seems to be implying (to me) is that (perhaps) he feels a little 'duped' because the 'common man's' belief, that Galileo first invented the telescope, is not quite so, once one digs into the details.

How often does this turn out to be the case, eh ?

Humans create a story/mystique around some historical incident, embellish it, kick it around in the media of the day, (and subsequently), and all of a sudden, it becomes 'truth' or 'fact'. (And frequently starts arguments).

Frequently, the more knowledge we gather about the reality surrounding events, the more bizarre the 'common man' view becomes to those who have looked in more detail. Astronomy (and Galileo) is all about observation, and looking into the details of the actual 'live' phenomena.

I think its great that we all share this passion for seeing things as they really are, rather than believing the stories we hear.

Great stuff.

Cheers & Rgds

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

I thought that was quite common knowledge, I never equated Galileo with inventing the telescope, I only equated Galileo with first observing Jupiter and it's moons.

It is a bit liking saying the first person to use a knife to kill somebody must have invented the knife.

How many other inventions of today are not being used for their original purpose, but have found greater acclaim for what they being used for now?

[mr bruess]

Galileo was punished for his views of taking Copernicus’ theory seriously.
He observed the moons of jupiter which proved that not everything went around the earth.
In 1610, Galileo stated his opinion in public that the sun is the center of the solar system
He was punished by the Church by being sent to prison for the rest of his life.
Now more than 300 years later he is being punished again for plagiarism.
We should stop the punishing and leave this great man alone and respect his great achievements in science

[CraigS]

According to Wiki, the name "telescope":

was coined for Galileo's instrument by a Greek mathematician, Giovanni Demisiani, at a banquet held in 1611 by Prince Federico Cesi to make Galileo a member of his Accademia dei Lincei. The name was derived from the Greek tele = 'far' and skopein = 'to look or see'.

… so Galileo may not have invented it, but perhaps if it weren't for him, the banquet may never have happened, and maybe, we wouldn't be calling it a 'telescope' ?


Cheers

[astroron (Ron)]

May I suggest that if you are interested in this subject, pick up a copy of Fred Watsons book "STARGAZER" The life and times of the Telescope.
It is a good read and has lots of information on this subject.
Cheers

[TrevorW]

Ask his daughter

if you get a chance read "Galileo's Daughter"

[avandonk]

Galileo was quite aware of lenses as they were used for eyeglasses. When he heard that two lenses could form a magnified image he very quickly worked out what was going on with off the shelf eyeglass (glasses) lenses. He used a positive lens as the objective and a negative lens as the eyepiece.
Finding that these off the shelf lenses were of poor quality he set about grinding his own. Fortunately there were glassmakers in Venice that could supply him with very clear quality glass blanks. These were made from the flattened sides of blown bottles. Very quickly he was making far better 'telescopes' than even the so called originals. He had a sound understanding of the Physics of refraction and was a very good experimentalist. He never claimed to have invented the 'telescope'.
Building on the work of others and going far futher due to talent and hard work is not plagiarism.

It is called Science!

Bert

[Barrykgerdes]

While it is generally accepted that the telescope was made into a practical device in the early 18th century. Galileo made a practical telescope and discovered Jupiters moons in the early 17th century. He did not invent it. He only made one from a known principle and turned it on the stars.

However glass and its transparency has been known previously for thousands of years and the magnifying properties of lumps of glass would most certainly have been discovered in antiquity. I would also suspect that the basic shape required to make a lens would also have been discovered and someone would have discovered that placing two lenses to supposedly to increase the magnification would have discovered the telescope effect.

It is a pity that non scientific people (TV Presenters) making far reaching statements don't get all the facts right first.

Barry

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Another one I just remembered.
Our dear friend John Dobson.

I remember when John came to Ballarat and in his question time someone asked him if he himself had named the mount 'Dobsonian' or had the Scientific Community named it.
John then told the story of how he was always grumbling to his friends about how he hates the way telescopes are named after people: Cassegrain, Newton, Dall Kirkham, etc. instead of by the optical system used.
So when he started using his 'Easy Mount' his Astro mates called it the Dobsonian to stir him up!
And he isn't really happy about it

But to get to the point.
John Dobson didn't invent the Dobsonian Mount, and he is quick to tell people that.
He says "Heck, they had cannons sitting on them for hundreds of years! I didn't invent it. Some Chinaman or Spaniard did"

[Pinwheel (Doug)]

As some people are getting a little cross I thought I would remind you that this post was about something discussed on a SBS documentary & are not my opinions. This thread has produced some interesting facts about the man which was my main intention. The only thing that may have offended some was my thread title. I should point out that this was a question & not a statement.