They don't have a clue.....

Peter Ward · #1 12-01-2011, 01:04 PM

After the Brisbane floods in 1974, there was much posturing and promises to make sure such an event could "never happen again"

Well it took 37 years...and not I'm sure high speed internet access/NBN is the top priority for the property and business owners who are now literally going under....

Perhaps a review of National priorities is in order?

Seems rather odd to me this does not seem to be happening given the current sad events and lessons well learnt elsewhere...

"By the year 1879, the need for improvement of the Mississippi River had become widely recognized. The necessity for coordination of engineering operations through a centralized organization had finally been accepted"

DavidTrap (David) · #2 12-01-2011, 01:12 PM

It's not sexy Peter - no votes in it!

After a government in QLD was voted out because they planned to build a road, subsequent governments have been too frightened to do anything controversial - this isn't my political opinion being voiced here, but fact!

However, for those who are saying that Wivenhoe isn't helping, it is apparently holding back an equivalent amount of water to what came through Brisbane in '74.

DT

renormalised (Carl) · #3 12-01-2011, 01:14 PM

It's just the norm....posture and promise, make a lot of noise, then hope the problem either goes away or happens on some other poor idiot's watch. Nothing will happen to fix or alleviate any future problems because the people will conveniently let those in charge get away with it after all this is over and passed on....and those in charge know this. They count on it.

supernova1965 (Warren) · #4 12-01-2011, 01:18 PM

Unfortunately the only way to avoid these events is to not build on flood plains we have to realise we can't change the rivers they will eventually win in the end.

TrevorW · #5 12-01-2011, 01:19 PM

Such mistakes are repeated look at tornado alley in the US where houses get destroyed and they continue to build them exactly the same way

These errors are repeated because Govt's and even insurance companies fail to act for reasons sighted above

It's no fault of the people they can only re-build what they can afford

renormalised (Carl) · #6 12-01-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

It's not sexy Peter - no votes in it!

After a government in QLD was voted out because they planned to build a road, subsequent governments have been too frightened to do anything controversial - this isn't my political opinion being voiced here, but fact!

However, for those who are saying that Wivenhoe isn't helping, it is apparently holding back an equivalent amount of water to what came through Brisbane in '74.

DT

Yep, Wivenhoe is full....with what rain you've got down there which is only equivalent to a normal wet season's rainfall up north, here. Get a heavy episode of rain like we often get in wet seasons where a metre or so of rain falls in a day and those dams down in the SE won't cut the mustard, especially now. You'll need a sub to go shopping in the Mall.

DavidTrap (David) · #7 12-01-2011, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Yep, Wivenhoe is full....with what rain you've got down there which is only equivalent to a normal wet season's rainfall up north, here. Get a heavy episode of rain like we often get in wet seasons where a metre or so of rain falls in a day and those dams down in the SE won't cut the mustard, especially now. You'll need a sub to go shopping in the Mall.

Yeah, but this isn't FNQ.

DT

renormalised (Carl) · #8 12-01-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

Yeah, but this isn't FNQ.

DT

True, but you're getting our typical wet season rain at present and the geography down there can't handle it. What if you do get a heavy rain episode....which could very well happen. You never know, and if you do get one or two, the '74 floods will look like a dry summer's day.

blindman · #9 12-01-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

After the Brisbane floods in 1974, there was much posturing and promises to make sure such an event could "never happen again"

Well it took 37 years...and not I'm sure high speed internet access/NBN is the top priority for the property and business owners who are now literally going under....

Perhaps a review of National priorities is in order?

Seems rather odd to me this does not seem to be happening given the current sad events and lessons well learnt elsewhere...

"By the year 1879, the need for improvement of the Mississippi River had become widely recognized. The necessity for coordination of engineering operations through a centralized organization had finally been accepted"

Absolutely with you Peter!

M/s Gillard should be sentenced to live at the most affected area for at least 2 months.

avandonk · #10 12-01-2011, 01:55 PM

Peter as usual you are at best misinformed at worst a stirrer. The Missisipi is just as these rivers that have a FLOOD PLAIN. Even the the powers that be have come to the conclusion that flood mitigation on the Mississipi have only moved floods to other areas.

Bert

multiweb (Marc) · #11 12-01-2011, 01:58 PM

Planning, financing, implementing and taking on a project of this amplitude would span more than one office which means unlikely follow-up and pretty much political suicide which is the problem these days. Short term meaningless/looking good is always taking priority over non-popular/right thing to do. But it is right that prevention would be far less of a financial impact than repeatidly fixing the harm that comes to all the people affected. Especially that death toll is just shocking.

Alchemy (Clive) · #12 12-01-2011, 02:04 PM

I'm convinced authorities don't get it, I am not familiar with the QLD local politics but here in Victoria in the shire of the Yarra Ranges where they had the bush fires only 2 years ago, they are now introducing new policies regarding vegetation, ..... Noone should cut up a fallen tree because it's habitat for some bug, They don't want firebreaks built, let's have net growth in trees and burnable stuff as priority number 1, trees have become sacred.

http://www.yarraranges.vic.gov.au/fi...y_Nov_2010.pdf

It's a chug of a read, but they never learn anything.

I'm sure the same problems exist up north, but just in a different context.

renormalised (Carl) · #13 12-01-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avandonk

Peter as usual you are at best misinformed at worst a stirrer. The Missisipi is just as these rivers that have a FLOOD PLAIN. Even the the powers that be have come to the conclusion that flood mitigation on the Mississipi have only moved floods to other areas.

Bert

Problem there, Bert is they went about flood mitigation in entirely the wrong way, trying to control the river by straightening it out. You can't do that with any large waterway, let alone a river like the Mississippi, which is huge. You're on a hiding to nothing. The smartest thing to do is not build on their flood plains, but for most instances that's completely impractical. You either have to live with the recurring floods in the best way you can and/or figure out ways to minimise the damage the best way you can....but not by shifting the problems elsewhere as they have in the US.

multiweb (Marc) · #14 12-01-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by renormalised

Problem there, Bert is they went about flood mitigation in entirely the wrong way, trying to control the river by straightening it out. You can't do that with any large waterway, let alone a river like the Mississippi, which is huge. You're on a hiding to nothing. The smartest thing to do is not build on their flood plains, but for most instances that's completely impractical. You either have to live with the recurring floods in the best way you can and/or figure out ways to minimise the damage the best way you can....but not by shifting the problems elsewhere as they have in the US.

You're pretty switched on Geology Carl. What's your take on QLD geography? Can something been done as a preventive measure? Can it be fixed? More dams? Embakments? Or back to the drawing board? I was asking the same questions the 6th of January in another thread wondering why QLD always get flooded. I was told it's just too flat and almost on sea level?

renormalised (Carl) · #15 12-01-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alchemy

I'm convinced authorities don't get it, I am not familiar with the QLD local politics but here in Victoria in the shire of the Yarra Ranges where they had the bush fires only 2 years ago, they are now introducing new policies regarding vegetation, ..... Noone should cut up a fallen tree because it's habitat for some bug, They don't want firebreaks built, let's have net growth in trees and burnable stuff as priority number 1, trees have become sacred.

http://www.yarraranges.vic.gov.au/fi...y_Nov_2010.pdf

It's a chug of a read, but they never learn anything.

I'm sure the same problems exist up north, but just in a different context.

It's the same here, Clive. They've got no clue at all. Best way to deal with them is if a disaster happens again because of their policies, sue them for everything they've got and then throw them in the slammer for their negligence and stupidity.

supernova1965 (Warren) · #16 12-01-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindman

Absolutely with you Peter!

M/s Gillard should be sentenced to live at the most affected area for at least 2 months.

This is not a recent problem and can't be blamed on any current government Liberal, ALP or any other political party you care to name these cities were built in the wrong place to begin with making the solution very politically unpalatable these areas need to eventually be considered uninhabitable or build to be able to cope with the flood peaks ie, elevated above the highest flood level and don't build and relocate residential areas from flood plain areas. I can't blame anyone for being scared to take the steps needed to end the cycle of death and destruction I mean you have to be in power to make any difference at all.

avandonk · #17 12-01-2011, 02:17 PM

If you want a rational analysis of where floods might affect you. Just try and insure your house against flood on a known flood plain. I am totally insured against flood (for free) as I am over 50m over any flood plain! Gee the insurance companies will cover me for an eventuality that will never happen!

Bert

Lee · #18 12-01-2011, 02:23 PM

Bert - if you flood, I would expect the insurer to be broke anyway!

avandonk · #19 12-01-2011, 02:33 PM

As for bushfires on Black saturday it was 49.7C at my place. The northerly was blowing at 60k and gusting at 100K. I do not think that a few logs on the side of the road would make a difference.

We all want to know why and how. But to blame any policies from anyone for black Saturday is both ignorant and facile. It was a perfect firestorm!

Bert

renormalised (Carl) · #20 12-01-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by multiweb

You're pretty switched on Geology Carl. What's your take on QLD geography? Can something been done as a preventive measure? Can it be fixed? More dams? Embakments? Or back to the drawing board? I was asking the same questions the 6th of January in another thread wondering why QLD always get flooded. I was told it's just too flat and almost on sea level?

It's not a problem that is going to be easily solved. Sometimes a dam is a good measure but in many cases it can make matters worse. You have to be very careful in locating and building the dams because the local geography and underlying geology can all effect how the dam performs in stressed situations, like now. You also have to pick the right kind of dam too. With embankments and such, we need to take a leaf out of nature's book about how they should be constructed. Trying to straighten out the courses of streams and rivers, or channeling floods away from one area only to make matters worse in another, is the wrong way of going about it all. Some of the really big rivers, like the Burdekin, Fitzroy, Clarence, Shoalhaven etc etc, you won't control no matter how much you put into stopping floods. In a good wet season, the Burdekin empties at its mouth twice the volume of water of all the other east coast rivers combined, into the ocean....you can't stop that. You'd need a dam over a mile high just to hold back all the water!!!!.

The problem with QLD is not that it's flat....it's not, except out west of the Divide. It's the amount of rain we get in the time we do. For instance, Mt Bellenden Ker (5000 feet, near Babinda), back in 2002, had 12 metres of rainfall that wet season. But the creeks and rivers like Babinda Ck, Jospehine Ck, Tully River and the streams that run into the Johnstone River, whilst they flooded, managed to handle it. They're fast flowing and are short watercourses that run to the sea within 50 or so miles. It flooded, but nothing to the extent like we're seeing down south. Also, our soils up here can absorb vast amounts of water before they become saturated...those down south can't. It's all to do with their composition and physical makeup. They're not meant to take the rainfall they're getting at present. They saturate quickly and what's left just runs off quickly to the streams and such. You also have different river and stream profiles down south than you get up north. The shape and size of the profiles also dictates how the rivers and streams will act when large amounts of water come down them. Many of the streams and rivers up here can handle much larger volumes of water before the begin to break their banks. They also spread out much wider when they flood.

So, that's what we have to work with and within. Not an easy task, but with a bit of intelligence and integrity, it can be done.