help looking for ff's

[Roobi]

hi guys, just wondering if anyone could give me some advise on looking for some galaxies. Mostly i've been trying to find the sculptor galaxy, ngc 55, ngc 253, helix neb and the veil neb but i'm having a tough time finding them. I'm using my astromaster 130eq (5.12 in) focal length 650mm f5. I'm using 30mm ep giving 22x mag, 20mm ep giving 32x and 10mm to give 65x. There is a fair amount of light pollution here (werribee). Have i got no hope of seeing these faint fuzzies, or am i myself doing something wrong and what would be the best mag to see some of these at? Thanx in advance if anyone can give me some advice.


Cheers guys.

Roobi

[Alchemy (Clive)]

Not an observer as such, but can you find m8, 16, 17, 42
I expect the galaxies to be fainter.
Werribee light pollution ..... Can you see the milky way band from your residence..... If not then yes you have lots of light pollution.

Not much help but hopefully you will get some better replies.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Sculptor and Helix in Sydney are so dim I can only see them in 20+ minute shots on a C9.25 these babies are dim, and just above my local sky glow (10kms NE of the city).

NGC 253 shouldn't be too hard to find and will look great in your scope. Try a sky chart - like Cartes du Ceil to get the approximate location (check it with binoculars) then you're away.

[mill (Martin)]

For your information, NGC253 is the Sculptor galaxy and i get it in 20 second shots.
The Helix nebula is another beast and is very faint mag 7.3
I think you would be able to get NGC253 mag 7.3 from Werribee although very faint because of the light pollution.
The best time to watch it is when it is fairly high.
NGC55 is magnitude 7.8 so a bit dimmer than NGC253.
These mags dont say much because you also have to consider surface brightness (this means the light spread over the object).

[Roobi]

ok cool, thanx for the replies. Can you then suggest any other easy objects for me to find (found plenty of nice clusters) but i would love to see a galaxy or two. What magnification ep would be best to view these at. Thanx again.

[Robh (Rob)]

I suggest you have a look at the Bortle Dark-Sky Scale. It may give you some idea as to the degree of your light pollution and what to expect from your observations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bortle_Dark-Sky_Scale

Regards, Rob

[Robh (Rob)]

Originally Posted by Roobi

ok cool, thanx for the replies. Can you then suggest any other easy objects for me to find (found plenty of nice clusters) but i would love to see a galaxy or two. What magnification ep would be best to view these at. Thanx again.

Your best bet at this time of year is M31 (Andromeda Galaxy), NGC 253 or NGC 55. As they are all quite large I would use low magnification (try any of the EPs you mentioned). Try observing the Sculptor galaxies when they are high in the sky and late at night (midnight on) when there are less lights on. Also at this time, if you can get a low-sky northern view is the Andromeda galaxy. Should be able to see it in binoculars.

Regards, Rob

[Blue Skies (Jacquie)]

Your 5" should get NGC253 BUT you will need dark skies to do it, you wont get it in suburbia. Ditto with the Veil - light pollution will kill it dead. In a dark sky a filter like an 0III will help, but again it must be a dark sky. In these cases it's not the magnification thats a factor - indeed, the Veil is so big you want the lowest mag possible - but aperture that's a problem. Rob's probably made the best suggestions (above) for you at the moment.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Galaxies in your 130mm scope are possible from Werribee. Compared to my place in Sydney, no problem at all.

My first "serious" astro scope was a Celestron C5, a 5" f/10 Schmidt Cassegrain telescope. Roughly same size as yours, but much 'slower' in f/ratio. With it now, I still am able to just make out Centaurus A, the hamburger galaxy. But it does require all my experience to make out its faint glow here in inner Sydney.

Galaxies are miserable buggers to spot. They may be large, but their glow is also spread out over this large surface area. Believe it or not, binoculars will be a major help to you too. From my home, I've also seen the Sombrero and M83 in 10X50 binoculars.

What galaxies need is averted vision to see. Use a star chart to narrow down the field to where they 'should' be, then slowly scan with a long focal length EP. The first thing you will see is a delicate glow out of the corner of your eye that quickly disappears when you look at it directly. It hasn't disappeared. It just won't appear like those beautiful pictures in the DSO imaging forum.

Once you've centred this faint glow, increasing the power can help make it a little clearer as this darkens the background sky glow.

I don't use any type of software based charts like Stellarium. I use two sets of printed star charts. One is "the Cambridge star atlas". It is great from home as the number of stars it shows is good enough for use from home, and using binoculars shows all the stars in this book of charts. What is great about this atlas is that each chart contains a table listing all the various objects and their details, such a size, magnitude, etc. What is great about these tables is that they details objects visible in smaller scopes, though most from a dark site.

The other set of charts I found in the Beginners Forum:

http://www.geocities.jp/toshimi_taki/index.htm

Taki's 8.5 magnitude series of charts goes over some 120 A4 pages, but it is fantastic at a dark site, or when I use my big dob from home with its 76mm finder. There is also a set of object tables too, and this again adds many more pages to a busy folder. However, it's a case of horses for courses too. When I'm just using my C5, I'd only be using the Cambridge atlas.

Try for NGC 253. It is a little tricky to locate, as there are no really bright stars to mark it, but only a faint astersim of stars to guide you to it. But you will see its distinct 'lenticular' shape in a low power eyepiece. Binoculars should be able to make it out for you too, even from Werribee, I've seen it from my home two weeks ago, and conditions weren't great either.

Rob mention to also try NGC 55, which is not far from 253, and is of similar shape through a scope. When they are back in season, also have a go for the Sombrero (M104), M83 and Centuraus A. All of these I've seen through a 30mm finder at a dark site.

Actually, PGC hunter has used his 114mm scope to make some beautiful sketches of galaxies. Your 130mm scope is certainly not out gunned. Be patient. Like I said, galaxies are difficult buggers. Maybe have a look at some of his stuff posted in the Observational and Visual forum. This is also a great forum to get observing tips too.

Last bit to my rant, a few weeks ago we had a session at the oval of a local high school where I took my big 17.5" dob. We tried for a few galaxies towards the end of the session. Conditions were crappy that night too, but my 40 year old eyes were still able to make out the feedle glow of a large galaxy, while the eyes of a 17 year old were not. It was only experience, not the quality of my eyes that spotted this bugger. See what I mean?

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

OK, here's the sad truth, not guesswork from people living interstate.

One of our members lives in Werribee and he says there is no hope of seeing any of the objects you name from Werribee.
The only one you 'might' see is NGC253 when it is at Zenith on a clear night away from as much light as possible. But probably not.
Otherwise, go for a drive out of town and they will become visible.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

No guess work, Ken. Werribee will in no way have the same sky as my place in inner Sydney. It doesn't take that much to see Werribee is not in inner Melbourne to gauge the quality of its sky. When you struggle to make out the five main contonent stars of the Southern Cross, you have a rough sky.

[Roobi]

Thanx again guys for the advise. At least i know now that i'm not doing anything wrong, I was pretty much doing exactly as mental4astro suggests, finding the rough area then scanning using averted vision, but no matter how hard i looked and looked, Nothing.
Werribee is so big now that i was worried of the amount of light pollution it would give off, let alone melbourne, we are a city now too, so i guess i just need to drive to gisborne to my mums farm more often.

Thanx again

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Originally Posted by Roobi

so i guess i just need to drive to gisborne to my mums farm more often.

Best bit, you get a hot cuppa made for you too! You gotta luv mums!

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

No guess work, Ken. Werribee will in no way have the same sky as my place in inner Sydney. It doesn't take that much to see Werribee is not in inner Melbourne to gauge the quality of its sky. When you struggle to make out the five main contonent stars of the Southern Cross, you have a rough sky.

One of our members lives in Werribee and HE says . . . .

If an experienced Amatuer tells me he can't see these objects in his 10" Dob from his house in Werribee who am I to doubt his word.

I do know that Werribee is waaayyyy over-lit.
But I don't know if they are visible or not.
That's why I said HE says.

Also, being in the centre of Sydney doesn't necessarily give you worse sky than other places like . . say Werribee.
There is a place about 15k from here out further into the dark sky country, it is about 100 acres of floodlit mining property. It is surrounded by Black sky and not a streetlight within a radius of over 10k, but for about 2k in any direction and you can't even make out Crux properly.

It is more a point of light concentration rather than size of town.
Maybe our member lives in a heavily light concentrated part of Werribee.
Some suburbs in Melbourne have slightly better sky than other suburbs. so even 'Melbourne' can't be stuck in a 'light pollution' nutshell.
Even here in my Dark town I can go up the road 1k and not see anything in the sky except Rigal Kentaurus and Venus.
Levels are different everywhere.

I'm not having a go at you, but do notice I did say 'HE' says

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Yep, good point, Ken. Yes, depending on the direction I observe, conditions do change markedly. The east tends to be better for me, the south so-so, west and north, well, a real struggle shall we say.

I must also say that conditions seem to have gotten much worse here too in the last year. Things I was able to see easily last year are just about invisible now! What on Earth could be happening in just one year?!

Still, we can only try and help, ...

[Roobi]

around 4,800 babies are born every week in oz, Maybe its all those extra night lights being left on?

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Originally Posted by Roobi

around 4,800 babies are born every week in oz, Maybe its all those extra night lights being left on?

Oi! Just how many of those 4,800 are yours then. Smug grin...

[Roobi]

lol, just one so far, but not this week lol