Noobs in Space (actually Cairns.... But anyway)

[slim6y (Paul)]

It' kind of fun being the noob... But... Embarrassing

Well, I'm Paul, from Cairns. I'm a teacher and I don't actually own a telescope.... yet... But I am in the throws of either selling or swapping my ride on for a scope. In fact the ride on is in the paper not next weekend, but the weekend after (just giving enough time for a swapsie if someone is interested).

Now I'd LOVE to do my research. But I find it so difficult to overcome the power of advertising vs actual facts.

Now firstly, I'll have up to $2000 (maximum) to spend on a scope.

I already have a decent camera and I can get adapters as required to fit the scope. I have used a 1300mm manual lens for the camera with some surprising shots.

So - with $2000 I know I can get a decent motorised scope, but will it be good enough to capture some photos of perhaps planets like Venus, Saturn, Jupiter? (Do many people use Uranus jokes?). Maybe a decent cluster of stars on the camera too?

But here's the clincher. I have a pretty decent laptop that I'd also like to be able to attach. But.... Is there a) a point or b) possible for this price?

Plus - are there any really decent areas to set up in Cairns (that I haven't already thought of) or is it trips to the Tablelands for the best viewing?

I have always had the 'scope' bug... But never actually acted on it. And until recently I lived on a really good block of land perfect for night watching. But instead I purchased a ride on lawn mower

We went to Charleville at Christmas time last year and really enjoyed the show they put on there too. So we're looking forward to starting a show of our own - but family and friends only invited

Anyway - thanks for reading and not totally smashing me out telling me to do 'research' before asking questions... Because research is what I'll do after I'd had some neutral input

Really loving the site too - lots of awesome photos. Looking forward to joining in more as I begin to understand what on Earth I am doing

Cheers

Paul

[renormalised (Carl)]

Hi Paul

Just thinking about good spots....you could probably try Tinaroo, up at the camping grounds, or one of the local footy fields. Whereabouts are you in Cairns?? That'll give me a better idea of where you can setup. The Tablelands would be good, but that means at least a 30 minute drive or so. Actually, it'll get you out of most of the light pollution, which is good. Plus at this time of the year, it's a lot drier than in Cairns and the air up there is a lot crisper and still. However, there should be plenty of spots around town to setup in.

Now, for your scope. If you're going to be moving around, you want something reasonably portable. You could pickup an 8" reflector on a HEQ5 mount for that much ($2000), but it's not exactly portable, in so far as the length of the scope's tube and weight of the rig. With a camera attached, you'd squeeze in under the mount's carrying capacity, so you could get away with the lighter mount (instead of having to go for an EQ6, which is also more expensive). If you goto Bintel, you can pick up a HEQ5 mount and Sky Watcher BD200 scope for $1950, or you could goto Andrews Communications and get similar (except scope isn't quite as good) for $1800. You could go down a size to a 6" on the same mount and pick one up for $1500-$1600 or less. If you're willing to forgo GOTO, you can pick them up for substantially less. At Andrews, an 8" on an EQ5 mount can be had for $800-$1000. But if you want to do piccies, you do need a steady mount. More so than anything else. You could even pickup a 127mm MAK OTA and the HEQ5 mount for under $2K (or on an EQ5 mount for $1750 at Bintel) or an ED80 refractor and mount for $1900 (at Andrews). An ED100 pushes your budget over by $200. There's also a special at Andrews on the gold tube 150mm MAK Pro's on a HEQ5 mount for $1999.

Thing is, apart from the scope and mount, you also have to buy whatever bits and pieces you want for the scope and you need to budget for them as well. So it's a trade off, really. Unless you buy some of them at a later date and go for the scope/mount first up. Another thing to think of is tracking. Yes, you can take piccies of the planets and the moon from a dob, but if you want to snap star clusters and such, you need to have a mount that can track. Not necessarily a goto mount, but one that can follow the movement of the objects through the sky. A goto mount is a bonus, especially for noobs as it helps them to find the objects and it's convenient (for us that are experienced...also for noobs). But it's not essential to be able to take piccies or for visual.

Hope that's been of help

[multiweb (Marc)]

Hi Paul, there are two distinct trends in your post. One is astro-photography and the other one is observing but I feel you're getting the astrophoto bug.

You don't need a scope to take good pictures of deepssky objects in the night sky. You need a good mount.

You don't need a mount to start observing. You need a decent size DOB.

So you need to figure out what you want to do first as this hobby can get pretty hairy on the wallet side of things so a bit of research can save you a lot of "back and forth" buying.

[that_guy (Tony)]

If you're gonna do planetary, it would be cheaper to get the largest possible aperture dob and a decent digi cam adapter... Jeanette (jjjnetie) has some awesome saturn pic with just a 10" dob, a hand held digital camera and a barlow..!

[slim6y (Paul)]

Thank you both for those answers - I think Ill go on good scope first then good mount later

So that's question 1 answered

Now to look at some of those links....

[renormalised (Carl)]

True Marc.....as you can see from my previous post there, Paul, even starting in astropiccies can get the wallet looking a little anemic. As both Marc and I have said, your main thing with piccies is the mount. It not only needs to be accurate and reliable, it needs to be "chunky", otherwise it'll slop about and ruin your day. Now, since you're really only just starting out, but you still want to take piccies at some stage, what would be best for you is to start out by learning about the sky first up. You can do that with a really good pair of bino's but a good dob scope is infinitely more desirable. Both would be ace, though, as the bino's you could use for very wide field viewing and the dob for more normal observing. Start off in this fashion and you can save up to purchase a good setup for piccies at a later stage. Something like a WO 110mm or 132mm scope on an EQ6 or EM200/AP1200/G11 mount. But there you're starting to look at some serious cash. Then you have your camera...you can start with your DSLR but eventually you'll want a CCD camera, and there you can take your pick and name your price

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by that_guy

If you're gonna do planetary, it would be cheaper to get the largest possible aperture dob and a decent digi cam adapter... Jeanette (jjjnetie) has some awesome saturn pic with just a 10" dob, a hand held digital camera and a barlow..!

Yep...eminently doable

And cheap

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by slim6y

Thank you both for those answers - I think Ill go on good scope first then good mount later

So that's question 1 answered

Now to look at some of those links....

As for you budget keep in mind that you are likely to sink a lot more cash in adaptors, cabling, correctors, power supplies, did I say cables again?... software. I'll stop, you get the picture. Try to factor for those in your purchase.

[torana68 (Roger)]

gee .. read that subject line and nearly fell off the chair, then I re-read it dont forget the second hand market, if you can wait youll find someting bigger for the same money (or something better if you dont want to go much bigger)
Roger

[mldee (Mike)]

Hi Paul,

As a 2-year newbie to the astrophotography side of things, I can pass on a few of my experiences. Of course, YMMV.

1 - Going the used route can save heaps of cash and as long as you do your homework first and are prepared to search around, you should be able to get a good goto imaging setup for well under $2K if you already have a camera. These items seldom get abused. I bought all my present scopes off the astronomy forums and have sold a few, too. BTW, what sort of camera do you have?

2 - Canon DSLR's are the best bet, it's the astro hobby standard and interfaces well to a laptop PC for total control. Very satisfying way to do things. A used 1000d or 450d would be a good starting point, although no doubt others will recommend the higher grade models. Only drawback with DSLR's is lack of cooling, meaning more potentially noisier pics, but they do a good job. I had a 1000d and it was excellent for my newbie needs.

3 - I'd definitely go the goto mount, makes imaging so much easier. Also look for used ones. They're relatively easy to maintain and repair, so don't be scared. EQ6/HEQ5/EQ5 in order of preference. Definitely no EQ3's or 4's (too small) and no Az/Els, they have movement limitations. If you can pick up a used HEQ5 at a good price, go for it. BTW, plenty of free software around (EQMOD, etc) to drive these mounts and cameras remotely from your PC.

3 - Scope? They're like cameras and have an f ratio, so faster scopes are more sensitive, all things being equal. Of course aperture size also matters a lot. a 4" scope just doesn't capture as many photons as a 10" one. Focal length is just like camera lenses too. You need shorter ones for wider sky views, and really long ones for the galaxies, etc. The Goldilocks conundrum Oh, and long focal length introduces much tighter mechanical stability needs for long exposures.

So - The tradeoffs? Newtonian reflectors: Fast (f5/f6) and reasonably long >1000mm focal length, but big and clumsy.

Schmidt Cassegrain (SC) folded-type reflectors: Slower (f10), much longer focal length (2000mm) and compact. Some types can be easily changed over to fast (f2) widefield (400mm) functions as well)

Refractors : The Goldilocks solution Not too slow (~f7), not too long (800-1200mm), not too big. And can give great pics.

I have finished up with one each of the above Starter recommendation for DSLR imaging? Put your money into a good goto, preferably a used HEQ5, and get either a used 8" SC or reasonable 80-100mm aperture refractor. The Skywatcher ED80 is quite popular. Either will keep you happy on planets and brighter DSO's and will be readily saleable later if you want to upgrade.

Bolting a DSLR to any of them simply takes a $20 T-adaptor for the model of camera you have. (That's why standardising on a Canon makes it easier

As Marc says, get a dob if you want to do observing. Not my cup of tea, eyes too old and dim.

Drop me a PM if you want to natter further about things, including the going prices for used items. And no, I'm not a used equipment dealer

Cheers,

[slim6y (Paul)]

I got my work cut out for me that's for sure...

Was going to look for a decent dob... Now it's just where to start.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by slim6y

I got my work cut out for me that's for sure...

Was going to look for a decent dob... Now it's just where to start.

Bottom line is astrophoto = good mount. If you get a decent mount that can handle weight you could mount an 8-10" DOB tube on it with rings. Then you got the DOB for visual use and the mount for both primefocus on the 8" tube or DSLR piggy back. That'd get you started.

Then you have two choices depending on what you like: sell the mount and get a bigger DOB or sell the DOB and get a refractor or other scope.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by slim6y

I got my work cut out for me that's for sure...

Was going to look for a decent dob... Now it's just where to start.

Checkout the IIS Classifieds and those sites I gave you...that'll give you some choices