Binoculars..

[samos]

Hey fellas - brilliant forum. So informative. I'm very new to the scene, and for years i've wanted a telescope. However, after reading a few of the threads on binoculars, I think i've changed my mind. Binoculars seem perfect for someone as naive and new to this as myself, and I can pretty much take them anywhere.

What sparked my enthusiasm was last week when I was down at my mates farm, we have a big get together there once a year. We were out in a paddock, and I was amazed at how open the sky and how littered it was with stars etc. Something i've never seen before.

I'm looking for a very introductory (and easy to use, point and look if you will) set of binoculars. Somewhere in the vicinity of $150.00-$300.00.

http://www.myastroshop.com.au/produc...sp?id=MAS-037A

or

http://www.spaceandastronomy.com.au/...binoculars.htm

There's even a few in the 'zoom and focus free' section, but i'm not sure of the pro/cons of this variety?

Any information appreciated. I've read the beginners guide and that was good, but i'm still unsure where to go from here.

Thanks in advance,
regards

Sam

[casstony]

In the price range you're considering you could afford some higher quality bino's such as the Pentax 10x50 PCF. These are relatively light and not to hard to hold steady - you'll need a tripod or mount of some kind if you go much above 10x.

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/welcome.htm

Others here have more experience with bino's and there may be better options than these but I'm not aware of anything better for the price. Welcome to IIS

[erick (Eric)]

Hi Sam

Perhaps some more reading before you decide:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-374-0-0-1-0.html

http://www.aoe.com.au/binocular_guide.html

http://www.astunit.com/faq/binocular.htm

http://www.cloudynights.com/category...ory_id=76&pr=3

http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea.../o/all/fpart/1

There are a few reviews here:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/reviews.html

Cheers and to IIS
Eric

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Highly Recommend:

Orion 9x63 mini giants.

Very good (wide) field of view.
Not too strong, not to weak.
Good exit pupil size.
Long eye relief.
Fold down eyecaps.
Fairly light and compact.
Excellent for terrestial viewing too.

Tripod not needed but definitely helps.
Normal camera tripod (with $12 adapter) will do.

There were recommended to me by Mike at Bintels. (currently only $349)
Very pleased with the result.

(Previously had a zoom binocular, what a waste for Sky viewing)
(going cheap if anyone interested )

[samos]

Thanks fellas, appreciate it. Just out of curiosity, how many nights in the week/month on average do we have skies that are clear enough to view properly, without clouds interfering? (never really paid too much attention to it)
I'm thinking a good place to start is sky-high in mt dandenong. I like the idea of being able to use the binoculars without a tripod, but then when I want - adding one into the mix.

What does everyone thinking about Bintel? It's about 20 mins away from me, are they reputable as a vendor?

Thanks

regards,
Sam

[erick (Eric)]

Yes Bintel have a good reputation.

I'm gathering you are in Melbourne. The answer to your question "how many nights in the week/month on average do we have skies that are clear enough to view properly, without clouds interfering?" depends on location. Ask the NT, Nth Qld folks now and they'll tell you their gear gets packed away for several months this time of year.

Melbourne is moving into a dry season (believe it or not!) so you can expect plenty of observing nights from now until July. But, of course, they are always on the nights you are otherwise busy, and not on the night you have planned to go out observing! Prepare to be very patient. If you are not, I suggest that you pick another hobby!

Depends what you want to see. For the Moon, Jupiter, Saturn, Venus, Mars, double stars and bright star clusters - you can work from your Melbourne back yard. For galaxies, globular star clusters, emission and reflection nebulae, you'll need to get well away from Melbourne - out towards Gembrook to the east, Romsey/Lancefield to the North, beyond Bacchus Marsh to the West and well down the Mornington Peninsular to the South. Just try different locations and see what you can see.

Remember, if you want to see fainter things, don't try while the Moon is in the sky. Also don't try until your eyes have adapted to the dark - about 20-30 mins minimum.

Good luck

[dannat (Daniel)]

Sam, firstly - you need to decide if you want to hand hold them or mount them on a tripod.(please report back )
It is very difficult to hand hold steady anything above 10x magnification for any length of time.
for astronomy i really like 15x70 - for widish field of view & good mag.

[Allan_L (Allan)]

Originally Posted by dannat

Sam, firstly - you need to decide if you want to hand hold them or mount them on a tripod.(please report back )
It is very difficult to hand hold steady anything above 10x magnification for any length of time.
for astronomy i really like 15x70 - for widish field of view & good mag.

Just to clarify the first number is the magnification and the second number is the apperture diameter.

Big apperture, more light, better for fainter objects.
However, too big a magnification with average aperture = CR@P ! Its like looking through a long narrow tube. Difficult to find your way around the sky. Frustrating for a beginner.

That is why the 9x63 are so good.

Also, dividing the apperture by the magnification gives you the exit pupil size. Too small is bad. Lioke a dot. Exit pupil should be 5 to 7 for best results, depending on your eye health, age etc.

Bintel are highly regarded here in Sydney too!
Knowlegable staff willing to spend time helping you.
Highly recommended.

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Weclome to the hobby Sam. Personally, I can highly recommend BinTel. Their staff are amateur astronomers themselves and their knowledge is exceptional. The staff will help you to no end to buy the best scope or binoculars for your needs, not just sell you the most expensive.

[samos]

You boys are brilliant. Top stuff. I'll go have a chat with them.

In response to what I want to look at - well, being a beginner - anything will amaze me. I'd definitely get frustrated if it was like looking through a straw, and I had a feeling the better the magnification, does not necessarily mean it's better in terms of what you see. Yes, initially i'd like to be able to simply hold the binoc's and look around. Eventually, as I become better - i'd get a tripod.

I might go into the store and have a chat with those around!

Thanks boys.

So 9x63 would be a good way to go?

[GrahamL]

I grabbed a pair of these from bintel a couple of years back and have been very happy with them.


http://www.opticsplanet.net/meade-9x63-roof.html

think they were a little under $200, can't be tripod mounted though.

good luck

[dannat (Daniel)]

Sam as you live IN Melb -as you aren't far from bintel 9x63 is a good size..but if you divide 63/9 = 7mm exit pupil. IN melb you are never going to be able to take advantage of this, as your own pupils will not open fully to 7mm (in a city its more like 4 or 5) - though for a beginner this can be confusing. in saying that though 9x is a really good magnification to hand hold & when you get to a dark country sky you will be able to take in all of the 63mm aperture (size of glass).
For this reason i would recommend a 10x50, something like a pentax pcf - which has the advantage of being waterproof/fogproof

If anyone is interested i could bring several pairs of binos to the Kangaroo Ground War Memorial Lookout Tower on eltham/yarra glen rd on one night this weekend - you could compare sizes & different magnification

[samos]

Ah thanks again fellas.

Our of curiosity, where are some good locations that aren't too far out where I could go to on a regular basis. Sky high is ~30 mins from me, but I imagine the distant city lights could be a problem, unless I stayed 30-40 meters below.

I'm in the SE suburbs of Melbourne (Vermont South). Any good locations 20-50km. Dannat has mentioned upper plenty region! I'm about 50-60 minutes or so away from mornington. Star gazing and fishing off the pier seems like a win win to me

[erick (Eric)]

While direct light is not good, the real problem is the illumination of the sky by the mass of lighting in the city. Just getting out of direct light doesn't solve that problem. Only km away can solve it.

Try here - Gembrook Sports Ground (50km - about an hour and nice drive). See here:-

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...light=gembrook

Going there will also give you an idea of the sky problem. North, East and South are somewhat dark. West (in the direction of Melbourne) is all washed out and light. Same with South if you go to Romsey. Same with East from Bacchus Marsh. Same with North from MPAS.

Perhaps Johns Hill Reserve (26km - 40 mins - search Google maps)

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...s+Hill+Reserve

[that_guy (Tony)]

all two binos of mine broke... just my luck

[samos]

Hey felllas, bit the bullet and bought an entry level pair of 10x50's. Bintel were extremely helpful, i'd have no issues going back there.
I did want the model above for ~$350.00, as they had a larger field of view.. but unfortunately I checked the letter box before I went and had a nice insurance invoice waiting for me, along with car service this week.

They feel sturdy and well put together. I had a look outside last night, but it wasn't a good night - plus it was quite bright.

I definitely understand now why you wouldn't want a zoom over 10 - i'm struggling to hold them steady as is. Any tips? I bought a beginners book (heavens above - a binocular guide to the southern skies) and its quite helpful, particularly because it's Australian. Only about a third of the way through it, so haven't reached techniques/tips section

[dannat (Daniel)]

which model did you get?

[erick (Eric)]

Good book!

Can you get near a high railing or the top of a car? Roll up a towel or get a small cushion and place the binoculars on that to steady them. You will have to get them near the edge so you can get your face in close enough to look through them. Doesn't help you get to high elevations, but will get you started. Good for the Jewel Box cluster in Crux this time of year - it's quite low early in the evening.

[ngcles]

Hi Sam & All,

I know I'm chiming in quite late here but I think you've made a good choice with the 10x50s Sam . Mind you, the 9x63s would have been just as valid a choice. My 10x50s are now 34 years old and still my most used binoculars.

Just to note a couple of other things that might be helpful. There is a very cheap binocular mount that can be made out of scrap timber here:

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/howto...inoculars.html

that really works well in helping to hold them steady. An even cheaper alternative is to rest them on top of an up-turned broom (if you are tall you will need a long-handled broom) but 10x50s are relatively easy to hand-hold steadily. If you don't believe me try the 70, 80 and 90mm binoculars first!

Fixed-focus binoculars are pretty poor -- they will be slightly mushy at all distances and particularly so on stars because stars are point sources and are therefore the most demanding on optics. Steer clear of them for astronomy.

Zoom binoculars are also a poor choice. They have generally narrower fields and will often be mushy on focus as well. Fixed magnification are best by some distance. Steer clear of zoom binos for astronomy.

Now moving on to roof-prism -v- porro-prism. In my opinion, porro-prism binoculars are inherently better than roof-prism design for astronomy. Roof-prisms typically loose 10-15% of the incoming light over porro-prisms and the image delivered to the eyepiece will accordingly be dimmer aperture -v- aperture. Roof-prisms throw away light but the advantage they have is in their slim, slightly more compact design. Roof-prism binos are also more tricky to collimate should they get bumped out of collimation (pretty rare) --porros are no more or less likely to be knocked out, but are simpler to fix.

There are a few books devoted solely to binocular astronomy and many astronomical magazines also devote a few column-inches to what you can see -- it might be worth a look there from time-to-time ...


Best,

Les D

[samos]

Thanks fellas.

I ended up with the Gerber model.

Have been waiting for a good night. It was cloudy last night, I wanted to sus out the moon. Haven't really had much time to take them out. I did have a good gaze at the stars, but really need to try the mop/broom trick (also mentioned in the book I have). My neck started to get real sore from the vertical gazing.

I could make out the handle of the teapot, and the middle glowing star which can't be seen to the naked eye. While the magnification isn't large, the enormous amount of light that I can take in is amazing. Just wish there were less street lights around my area, I really need to travel out to get a dark sky :/

The book I have (while good for star observation) doesn't really mention much about the planets (well it does, but not so much on how to find them). What will I be looking at (in terms of size). Will it be relatively similar to a large star, with differentiation in colour?

Thanks guys.