Truckies down a few pegs....

[Peter Ward]

Yes...I've been on the Hume Highway again. In a car this time. I was appauled by the lack of thought/behaviours I saw.

Why?

1) For the truckies: If you can't see 75 metres in front of you....say due to torrential rain...them don't travel at a speed faster than you can see/react/stop in!

2) For motorists/car drivers: If it's raining *really* heavily on the highway.
*don't* put your hazzard lights on and stop!

The number of cars I saw today that stopped/pulled over on the Hume due to a thunderstorm/heavy rain amazed me....these people I could only describe as somewhere between being a) scared of driving in the wet to b) plain stupid to c) suicidal

I am amazed no one was killed. Trucks at 100km/hr. Cars crawling to stopped. Madness!!

Sure, slow down for the conditions. But don't stop on a 110km/hr national highway because it's wet.

[Kevnool (Kev)]

Thank goodness i dont live over that way then.
Cheers Kev.

[Chillie (Henry)]

Peter, If a driver can't see where he/she is going, it is much safer to pull up well off the road and wait until it is safe to continue than to keep driving.

Take a chill pill and relax.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Chillie

Peter, If a driver can't see where he/she is going, it is much safer to pull up well off the road and wait until it is safe to continue than to keep driving.

Take a chill pill and relax.

Let me spell it out:

One drongo slows to say 20km/hr, outside lane, on a really wet 110km/hr limit road.

Truckie still does 100km/hr, and can't see much due same downpour.

Finally, truckie sees 20km/hr car, swerves left. But, due car in left lane (yes I keep to the left!) might take me out, and/or 6-10 cars parked in break-down lane.

I saw it all, in real time, today, sans the impact, as the inner lane was clear, and I put my foot down to give the truckie some room. (Ah ha! Speed can save! )

As for the FW in the right lane...he/she probably had no idea. Should have license confiscated, and maybe a $10,000 fine. A few lashes of the rattan would have been helpful to re-inforce the lesson as well

Cheesh. Chill pill? Nah, when drongoes try to kill me it doesn't work.

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Chillie

Peter, If a driver can't see where he/she is going, it is much safer to pull up well off the road and wait until it is safe to continue than to keep driving.

Take a chill pill and relax.

I'm going with Peter.

You should never be driving at a speed that you can not stop in the distance you can see. That applies as much to cars as trucks.

For most of the Hume there is nowhere you can pull off that is far enough away from the traffic to be safe, and being parked with the hazard lights on might mislead someone into thinking that's where the road goes.

Have the lights on, keep left and take an exit if you aren't comfortable continuing.

Originally Posted by Peter

As for the FW in the right lane...he/she probably had no idea. Should have license confiscated, and maybe a $10,000 fine. A few lashes of the rattan would have been helpful to re-inforce the lesson as well

Which all goes to prove the point. The keep left law is never enforced, so people never learn. You have to hit them in the hip pocket to have any notice taken.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

I have bitten my tounge for a while in regards to your comments / posts as you seem to think you are right about everything in regards to our roads no matter the situation, but your drawing a thin line between ranting and absolute stupidity.

I'm not even going to bother about asking you for more details on the senario, as you seem to be determined to live in your own little box no matter what others have to say. This sadens me as a wish sometimes to converse with you on such matters


You do realise your posts more often than not, in regards to said topics come across not only nieve but of a somewhat trollish nature.

You have a way of wording things to encourage others to, "bite back" insuing a debate in which you will never accept others opinions.
Given that why bother commenting / making threads if you won't give others remarks any grace at all...

Lets me guess, everyone was just pulling over for no reason, conditions were adequate to drive in and everyone should be as confident as you or get off the road?
Well guess what? They did, they pulled over, most probably because they were scared of the conditions. I have pulled over in torrential rain on the Hume before, granted it was probably worse than the conditions you saw, but I felt well within my right to do so, they probably felt the same.

Give people less skilled than you a break Peter, we are all more than aware that you have near perfect driving skills and seem to be the be all and end all of drivers. Perhaps you should try and see things from others POV.
If they are so in-experienced that they feel they need to pull over in heavy rain when they do not, maybe it is indeed better they are off the road than running into you through in-experience.

Ever considered a career as a disgruntled driving tutour? I reckon you would have it down pat.


Don't get me wrong, I indeed agree with you in most cases especially with the truckies still going full speed. Slow moving cars on a freeway do cause accidents and some of their manuvers are dumb-founding to say the least.

[norm]

I was on the F3 today and the number of people passing me at 115-120k's was unabelievable....as luck would have it, no highway patrol.

To make matters worst, then you had L platers on 80k's - talking about screwing the flow of traffic. Surely there should be some restrictions for L platers using the freeway - it was bloody dangerous. The only alternative that I can see is that they be allowed to travel at least 100km/h.

Thats my rant.
Norm

PS: there are d$ckheads on the freeway all the time with no spacial concept of speed/distance and most of all - common bloody sense.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Originally Posted by norm

I was on the F3 today and the number of people passing me at 115-120k's was unabelievable....as luck would have it, no highway patrol.

To make matters worst, then you had L platers on 80k's - talking about screwing the flow of traffic. Surely there should be some restrictions for L platers using the freeway - it was bloody dangerous. The only alternative that I can see is that they be allowed to travel at least 100km/h.

Thats my rant.
Norm

PS: there are d$ckheads on the freeway all the time with no spacial concept of speed/distance and most of all - common bloody sense.

If they keep to the left like they should, there should not be a distruption to the flow of traffic.

The police do a will enforce the keep left rules, my sister in-law was recentley booked after not merging left quick enough. She was not intending on staying in the right lane, just was unable to merge left until traffic allowed her to. She was booked for travelling in the right hand side lane.
Although that is her side of the story, i'm sure she was just lagging in the right lane without merging quick enough. So she deserved to be booked.

[GrahamL]

So what your really saying Pete is both you and the truck driver were
driving at speed well outside what the conditions would throw up to the inexperianced driver on our roads ?

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Lumen Miner

I have bitten my tounge for a while in regards to your comments / posts as you seem to think you are right about everything in regards to our roads no matter the situation, but your drawing a thin line between ranting and absolute stupidity...

Maate.... I can take that on the chin.

What I found weird was there were virtually no cars "pulled over" due the conditions going south. North, there were dozens. (It's called "group think"..look it up )

Sure it was heavy rain. But nothing worse than the Sydney burb's get this time of year.

What I can't forgive is a driver virtually stopping in the right lane on a 110km/hr highway. In low visibility, that kills people.

If you are scared shi$less driving in such conditions, then get some advanced driver training. In the aviation world it's cut and dry. If you are a VFR pilot and fly in IFR you'll probably die.

The truckies driving behaviour was wreckelss at best, to plain stupid.

Even more so the driver in the right lane. One more link in the chain and several families may not have got home today.

End of rant.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by nightstalker

So what your really saying Pete is both you and the truck driver were
driving at speed well outside what the conditions would throw up to the inexperianced driver on our roads ?

No. I was doing about 70km/hr (left lane). No problemo. Beyond that I was not confident of seeing the road well enough to stop in time due poor vis.

The truck was doing the limit (100km/hr) in the right lane.

The problem was the driver doing 20km/hr, also in the right lane (whom I passed seconds earlier...thinking WTF???).

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Maate.... I can take that on the chin.

What I found weird was there were virtually no cars "pulled over" due the conditions going south. North, there were dozens. (It's called "group think"..look it up )

Sure it was heavy rain. But nothing worse than the Sydney burb's get this time of year.

What I can't forgive is a driver virtually stopping in the right lane on a 110km/hr highway. In low visibility, that kills people.

If you are scared driving in such conditions, then get some advanced driver training. In the aviation world it's cut and dry. If you are a VFR pilot and fly in IFR you'll probably die.

The truckies driving behaviour was wreckelss at best, to plain stupid.

Even more so the driver in the right lane. One more link in the chain and several families may not have got home today.

End of rant.

I agree with you, but you baited your thread with the "pulled over" comment.
That was the only thing I dis-agreed with. Frickin' idiots in the left or right lane going under the speed limit is shocking, couple that with trucks going the speed limit is just an accident waiting to happen.


On a secondary note, although I was abrupt about your thread, I did not resort to childish remarks such as "Look it up". I am aware of the "group think" concept and believe perhaps you should look it up and actually have a think about it before assuming I would need to "look it up". You maybe older than me but i'm not 5 years old.

The example of a "Group think" makes absolutley no sense in a driving situation like this. It was a concept originally illustrated where-in a group responds to external pressures (each other) and react simultaniously to come to an irrelevant conclusion often with dis-regard to routine they have found to be valid.

The drivers were not effected by "Group think", they were responding to a situation. They did not spontainiously pull over because they saw others pulling over, they pulled over because they felt they needed to and saw a relevant area where others had done the same.

Group think refers to situations where you would not come to that conclusion, unless others stimulated you to do so. You have no idea why they pulled over, you are assuming it was group think mentality.

Many examples of group think have been illustrated in the past, most where-in a group is knowledgable of a situtation and an individual being out of the loop is not prepared to risk themselves not matter how stupid the others are being.

I don't believe you summoning the term "Group think" has any merit what so ever in the example you illustrated, but that's just my opinion perhaps I should "look it up" again.

[Peter Ward]

Just for the record.

My apologies if I seem a little emotional over this.

I ask myself was speed a factor?

Yes it was.

A car was going *way* too slow and a truck way too fast.

The bit I didn't like was, I was in the middle.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

The bit I didn't like was, I was in the middle.

I know that feeling, sucks. Especially when you are blasting your horn, with no where to go but off the road at 110km/h.

I don't think there is any reason for you to apologise. Adds for an interesting topic.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Lumen Miner

I did not resort to childish remarks such as "Look it up". I am aware of the "group think" concept....

It was wrong of me to assume you were not conversant with the term.

That said, I disagree with your interpretation.

Walking down Pitt street mall (with say a friend) stopping, looking up and pointing is guaranteed to illicict a similar (look up) response.

I'd suggest Group Think is a little further down the same continuum.

Spouse says "Oh, they've put on their hazzard lights and stopped" maybe you should too! (many did)

What I can't reconcile is why the southbound traffic didn't do the same (virtually none)

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

No. I was doing about 70km/hr (left lane). No problemo. Beyond that I was not confident of seeing the road well enough to stop in time due poor vis.

The truck was doing the limit (100km/hr) in the right lane.

The problem was the driver doing 20km/hr, also in the right lane (whom I passed seconds earlier...thinking WTF???).

I think we are all agreed the car steerer (anybody that idiotic can't be called a driver) was an accident looking for somewhere to happen.

I know you've driven a truck before Peter, but was it raining or foggy at the time?

Because the driver is much higher up, and therefore further from the spray and light backscatter, he can see further head than car drivers. This is even noticeable in a full size 4WD (eg Landcruiser, Patrol).

This observation is not intended to excuse traveling ridiculously faster than the surrounding traffic. Someone else's stupidity can include you in their accident.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Lumen Miner

I know that feeling, sucks. Especially when you are blasting your horn....

No time for the horn!

Just a Kenworth looming large in the mirrors and me accelerating (wishing I'd not taken the wagon )

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by mithrandir

I know you've driven a truck before Peter, but was it raining or foggy at the time?

No it wasn't and ...good point! They've gone up a peg or two

Then again, I have aquaplaned 18 (aircraft) wheels. Not much fun.

[Lumen Miner (Mitchell)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

It was wrong of me to assume you were not conversant with the term.

That said, I disagree with your interpretation.

Walking down Pitt street mall (with say a friend) stopping, looking up and pointing is guaranteed to illicict a similar (look up) response.

I'd suggest Group Think is a little further down the same continuum.

Spouse says "Oh, they've put on their hazzard lights and stopped" maybe you should too! (many did)

What I can't reconcile is why the southbound traffic didn't do the same (virtually none)

I think you may have you definition of "Group think" a lil' bit mixed up.
It is not a term coined to define a reaction to stimulus, such as your illustrated example of a person making someone look up. The term "Group think" was an expression coined by William H. Whyte whilst referencing situations where-in a person dis-regards the obvious situation, ignoring their "learned" responces to fall into line with the majority, for no other reason than the rest are doing so.

It was raining, and this would possibly merit pulling over. That makes the "Group think" term irrelevant. Did "Group think" make the first person pull over? No.

If it was sunny, good conditions, perfect road and someone started a chain of pulling over for no reason what-so ever, except that they saw three cars in a line pulled over, that would then be considered "Group think"


I can see where you are coming from, but you are wrong with your terminology.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Lumen Miner

It was raining, and this would possibly merit pulling over. That makes the "Group think" term irrelevant. Did "Group think" make the first person pull over? No.

A moot point.

The possibility also exists in irrational decision was made by driver/spouse/inlaw to stop in conditions did not warrant it, and by doing so put the group a greater risk.

Would you not call that group think?

In any event, the truck driver had few options, one was impacting into the multiple parked cars. Happily that didn't happen today.