What came first the chicken or the egg?

[gman (Grant)]

Have been reading a bit about black holes lately as they have me intrigued by their very nature.
There seems to be one at the centre of most galaxys and that they are generally in sync with the surrounding galaxy in terms of size etc in relation to the galaxy.
Got me thinking, which started life first, the black hole or the galaxy?

[lesbehrens (Les)]

i think i would be the Galaxy because u need a star to die to make a black hole. and lots of stars had to die to me a bigger hole.
thats what i think.true or not???
les

[Quark (Trevor)]

If you are talking about the super massive black holes that exist in the cores of galaxies, their formation is thought to be quite different to that of stellar black holes.

When galaxy formation originally occurred the Universe was much smaller than it currently is, primordial matter was considerably denser. I believe that the galactic black holes formed in the early stages of galaxy formation as a consequence of the collapse, due to gravity, of the central densest regions of these proto galaxies.

Clearly these galactic black holes formed before the final structure of their host galaxies evolved to what we would now accept as the norm for the various morphologies that we see.

Regards
Trevor

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Quark

If you are talking about the super massive black holes that exist in the cores of galaxies, their formation is thought to be quite different to that of stellar black holes.

When galaxy formation originally occurred the Universe was much smaller than it currently is, primordial matter was considerably denser. I believe that the galactic black holes formed in the early stages of galaxy formation as a consequence of the collapse, due to gravity, of the central densest regions of these proto galaxies.

Clearly these galactic black holes formed before the final structure of their host galaxies evolved to what we would now accept as the norm for the various morphologies that we see.

Regards
Trevor

Precisely, you're quite correct in your assumptions there, Trevor.

[markcollier8 (Mark)]

A theory if the Universe can be looked at as a living body expanding contracting etc & black holes are known to pull things in maybe thats how the Universe gets rid of unwanted particles,matter energy etc etc.

[MrB (Simon)]

I read the question as this:
A) A pre-existing black hole gathers up material to form a galaxy around it.
B) Black hole forms from the cloud of material that is now the galaxy... no matter how the galaxy looked before now.

I voted B, Galaxy first.
In my mind it's similar to the way our solar system is thought to have formed... cloud of material, rotation, coalescence.... Pooof! Sun.
Just on a much much much larger scale

[Alchemy (Clive)]

the first question is easy ... the chicken


the second , depends on when a blob of gas becomes a galaxy, the gas would have to condense into clumps then bodies etc and finally a black hole as it clumps enough, so logically the galaxy, as the mass even if its concentrated was there before. .... the galaxy.

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

what Trevor said!!

[MrB (Simon)]

One more each 'n they'll be even

[Chrissyo (Chris)]

I saw a recent article on this matter:

http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01...or-black-hole/

"The implication is that the black holes started growing first."

[Barrykgerdes]

The answer of course is neither.
It is all tied up with infinity.
Infinity is what it says. No begining, No end
It is a concept that we mere humans fail to comprehend
We only understand finite concepts
Never the less it is so and I accept this enigma

Therefore unless I can tick both. I can tick neither

Barry