What is wrong with car industry in USA

[xelasnave]

I have been wondering what with the bail out and executives now prepared to work for a dollar a year... running a jet will get hard for them.

But I liked this I read today.........


"""The problem is finance. “We have plenty of customers—what we don’t have is financing available to meet their needs,” Mike Jackson, chief executive of AutoNation, a leading car-dealer chain, told CNBC this week. He reckons that tighter credit and limits on finance for leases have cost his firm a fifth of its sales this year."""

Is that a clever observation or what.... I want a big scope, a expensive astro camera and a beach house and a plane... and I have the same problem... but I am content that there are some things I dont have money for... my solution is more complex than their..if you dont have the money you are not a customer...

What an observation...

Mate if your customers dont have money you need to find a business where the people have cash...

So on that basis I guess we will get a similar problem to prime loans as surely the government over there must now demand of banks they lend money to people to buy cars they can not afford.

Anyways it got me thinking... how to fix the car industry...

Maybe if they made the 2008 model still available without an update thru to 2028 cars will get relatively cheaper and more folk can buy.

but most interesting of all they used the word "reckons" I thought that was my exclusive property.
alex

[xelasnave]

Sorry Mr Mod I meant this to go in general chat
alex

[Ian Robinson]

Let them go under since they have failed to adapt to what their customers want.

Bailing them out is rewarding bad (out of date) technology and abyssally poor management.

[xelasnave]

I agree absolutely Ian
alex

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

Not often I agree with Ian ....but
Yep, for too long car manufacturers have told us what we need. I know what I need, no bells and whistles, just a vehicle that will take me from A to B at a reasonable cost and does'nt need a degree in electronics/computer software to diagnose and repair. If they are going down the gurgler, let them, perhaps they will be replaced by someone who has the customers wishes in mind. There's always a successor waiting in the wings (yeah, wishful thinking)

Cheers
Bill

[acropolite (Phil)]

Originally Posted by Alex

Sorry Mr Mod I meant this to go in general chat
alex

moved.

[mick pinner]

l work in the auto repair industry and it is not the fault of the manufactures as to what they build, cars are dictated by the customer. people want cars that go further on a litre of fuel, safer cars and greener cars, this means research and development. cars cannot stand still because people won't allow it therefore prices have to rise. the problem with the auto industry is too many manufacturers, if there were say 4 major car producers in the world they would have larger market shares and should therefore be able to keep prices down especially if they share info relating to product development. cross development of vehicles between companies such as Holden and Volvo has been going on for years. as an example of using another companies ideas, 80% of all safety features incorporated in motor vehicles world wide are developed by one company, Mercedes Benz.

[Kal (Andrew)]

mick - watch "who killed the electric car" and you will see that car companies such as GM don't give a damn about what customers want. What they want is to sell the cars with the highest margins, which are generally larger cars, and they will advertise and push customers in that direction. Just like the banks with their subprime problem - companies like GM made high risk decisions for short term gain in order to give executives fat bonus cheques in the order of millions of dollars.

GM killed the EV1 and decided to heavily promote the Hummer, and to be honest, I would love to see GM fall on it's own sword right now and go bankrupt.

BTW - companies like Toyota and Volkswagen certainly aren't struggling depite the competition.

[xelasnave]

I think the market system fails us as it tries to give folk want they want not what is best for them or what they need.

I agree less manufactures would help.

But we now enter the realm of Government control to arrive at such a situation and if we go there we may as well simply legislate so the market gets what it needs not what it wants.

Also I feel maybe instead of new models all the time that running with one for say five years may help... a free market cant do that of course because everyone wants the latest...It would be a brave Government who try to rationalise the industry... maybe the carbon thing will give them an excuse and folk mat accept it ..to save the planet approach.. but taxing seems the only method they will try to save the planet with.

AND why do we allow cars that car do near 300 klms p/h ...

When in Sydney and on occassion I find myself in the stop stop traffic I look each side and wonder why folk want such powerful cars... I feel it is mostly an ego thing... cause no one can use the advantage of more power than my little car... and on the freeway my car keeps up with traffic... with heaps of speed in reserve...



alex

Mick it makes me happy to hear that there is some rationalisation and thanks for an inside view.

alex

[xelasnave]

AND if one thinks about it things go this way.. the car company puts out a car and then markets it so the buyers think thats what they want...
alex

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

AND if one thinks about it things go this way.. the car company puts out a car and then markets it so the buyers think thats what they want...
alex

Don't you just love the marketing hype.

New improved model - different body trim from last year.
Cutting edge technology - we think it will work.
Fully computerised - team of uni graduates needed to repair it.
Increased power - uses more fuel
300km/hr top speed - only to be used on race tracks


Bill

[Ian Robinson]

Any privately owned company that requires corporate social security to survive either :
- should be nationalised 100%
- or let fail.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Glenhuon

Not often I agree with Ian ....but
Yep, for too long car manufacturers have told us what we need. I know what I need, no bells and whistles, just a vehicle that will take me from A to B at a reasonable cost and does'nt need a degree in electronics/computer software to diagnose and repair. If they are going down the gurgler, let them, perhaps they will be replaced by someone who has the customers wishes in mind. There's always a successor waiting in the wings (yeah, wishful thinking)

Cheers
Bill

I believe there is a company in Sri Lanka called The Venerabel Car Company (or some such similar title) that specialises in making all the parts for Morris Minors. Why? Because they are cheap, practical and can be repaired in any village workshop.

I imagine many of us are of an age where we did all the service and repairs on our first car. Mine was an FC Holdlen and I did everything on that car. New cars are undoubtedly better in that they don't need so much TLC to keep going but when you do need to work on them its a specialist job.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Another little tail about why US car makers fail.

Years ago president Ray-Gun was visiting Japan. At the prompting of the US motor lobby he got up in public and complained about Japanese protectionism which resulted in no US cars being sold in Japan. The Japanese prime minister responded that there was no restriction on the importing of US cars to Japan and that the problem was that no US makers made right-hand-drive versions of their vehicles. The observant US president had already been in Japan a few days but had not noticed that they drive on the left.

Following on from that, later on the Japanese PM told Reagen that the reason US manufacturing could not compete with Japan was that Japan is racially pure whereas the US is a racial mixture. The uproar in Japan was such that he had to resign. (And who says there is never any justice in this world - it is just not too common.)

[xelasnave]

Now Ian you are far too harse...

Have you not heard they will take a pay of a dollar a year.

AND today to go to Washington did they come by private jet...no no...they drove there in "high breed" cars..you know the ones they have been trying to scotch all these years...

What an act!!!

I dont know why Congress allows itself to be involved in such a disgusting show... because they are going to give them the money and are trying to buy off the public rage of that I have no doubt.

It is better than the theater... I just dont know if one should call it comedy or tradgedy.... it certainly has moved past the who done it because they qualified their plea for cash with....."we know we have made mistakes..."

The poor folk who banks sucked in to take on loans they never could afford could make no such claim as they were simply conned.

AND "we cant let gmh fail it is part of the countries heritage... " so was home ownership pal who was worried about that heritage being lost.

Let them drown... clean the scum from the water and move forward.

I am sorry about the workers who will go but I give them no more thought than their stupid bosses gave to them who have lead them to this position...

and what do you think the first moves of restructure will take...

sack more workers, and tell those left in fear of losing their jobs that they must work harder and accept less money.... after all the bosses now live on a dollar a year...well they can if they managed to put away a few dollars from their previous years of plunder and greedy indulgence.

There will be no problem if they all fail...certainly no one will not have a car...because if folk want cars there will always be an effecient business man out there that can take up the slack..that is the wonderful thing about capitalism...the strong inherit the weak fail.

Cuba went without new cars for years and they got by and their situation saw them actually repairing and treasuring cars and not scrapping them when the ashtrays were full.

AND today listening to a guy on the radio he said most of the problems come in management of a ressession or ..can we say it now..depression ..is because of over Government reaction.
This hand out scheme our Government is using to give publicans a good xmas will see death and many wives beaten ...sad but true and any fool must accept that.

AND why do they (US Govt) react..to save the little folk..no way... did the US Government knock on any door of a person facing forclosure with a hand out to save their house... if they did it did not make the news.

It surprises me that when things go well these CEO's are full on capitalists but when they face bankruptcy they seem to turn left real fast...left means Government intervention to bail them out.

So Ian I agree almost with you...

Let then fail then nationalise 100% and send the ceo's to the end of the employment line... those who one does not gaol for gross neglect.

It is so wet here I am past bored never been so cabin crazy ... if I can get out the driveway I am going to the pub to discuss UFOs, Earth crushing rocks, astrology and tarot cars...and beat everyone at pool.

alex
alex

[Ian Robinson]

The real reason why yank tanks can't compete with jap cars is that they are crap in comparision and are blown out of the water when it comes to quality of manufacture.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Another little tail about why US car makers fail.

Years ago president Ray-Gun was visiting Japan. At the prompting of the US motor lobby he got up in public and complained about Japanese protectionism which resulted in no US cars being sold in Japan. The Japanese prime minister responded that there was no restriction on the importing of US cars to Japan and that the problem was that no US makers made right-hand-drive versions of their vehicles. The observant US president had already been in Japan a few days but had not noticed that they drive on the left.

Following on from that, later on the Japanese PM told Reagen that the reason US manufacturing could not compete with Japan was that Japan is racially pure whereas the US is a racial mixture. The uproar in Japan was such that he had to resign. (And who says there is never any justice in this world - it is just not too common.)

I knew it ...those dam Japanese would not change to left hand drive... clearly their fault why US cars did not take some of the market.

alex

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

It surprises me that when things go well these CEO's are full on capitalists but when they face bankruptcy they seem to turn left real fast...left means Government intervention to bail them out.

Once again I am reminded of the quote:"A game that socialises risk but privatises profit".

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Now Ian you are far too harse...

Have you not heard they will take a pay of a dollar a year.

AND today to go to Washington did they come by private jet...no no...they drove there in "high breed" cars..you know the ones they have been trying to scotch all these years...

What an act!!!

I dont know why Congress allows itself to be involved in such a disgusting show... because they are going to give them the money and are trying to buy off the public rage of that I have no doubt.

It is better than the theater... I just dont know if one should call it comedy or tradgedy.... it certainly has moved past the who done it because they qualified their plea for cash with....."we know we have made mistakes..."

The poor folk who banks sucked in to take on loans they never could afford could make no such claim as they were simply conned.

AND "we cant let gmh fail it is part of the countries heritage... " so was home ownership pal who was worried about that heritage being lost.

Let them drown... clean the scum from the water and move forward.

I am sorry about the workers who will go but I give them no more thought than their stupid bosses gave to them who have lead them to this position...

and what do you think the first moves of restructure will take...

sack more workers, and tell those left in fear of losing their jobs that they must work harder and accept less money.... after all the bosses now live on a dollar a year...well they can if they managed to put away a few dollars from their previous years of plunder and greedy indulgence.

There will be no problem if they all fail...certainly no one will not have a car...because if folk want cars there will always be an effecient business man out there that can take up the slack..that is the wonderful thing about capitalism...the strong inherit the weak fail.

Cuba went without new cars for years and they got by and their situation saw them actually repairing and treasuring cars and not scrapping them when the ashtrays were full.

AND today listening to a guy on the radio he said most of the problems come in management of a ressession or ..can we say it now..depression ..is because of over Government reaction.
This hand out scheme our Government is using to give publicans a good xmas will see death and many wives beaten ...sad but true and any fool must accept that.

AND why do they (US Govt) react..to save the little folk..no way... did the US Government knock on any door of a person facing forclosure with a hand out to save their house... if they did it did not make the news.

It surprises me that when things go well these CEO's are full on capitalists but when they face bankruptcy they seem to turn left real fast...left means Government intervention to bail them out.

So Ian I agree almost with you...

Let then fail then nationalise 100% and send the ceo's to the end of the employment line... those who one does not gaol for gross neglect.

It is so wet here I am past bored never been so cabin crazy ... if I can get out the driveway I am going to the pub to discuss UFOs, Earth crushing rocks, astrology and tarot cars...and beat everyone at pool.

alex
alex

The salary component of executes in big companies is a very minor component of their actual income - so what if they are offering accept $1 pa , you can bet they will make the difference in perks , and shares , and options.

Now if they offered to do without their golden paracutes, and their accumulated shares and options (to date and in future) and to actually be personally financially accountable for the performance of their companies then they might be talking turkey.

[xelasnave]

No Ian I am sure all that will change and they are really only going to take one dollar ...

I just know they have the interests of everyone else at heart and they will do it as a public duty...sortta like charity....

These are folk with the interest of the country at heart .... at least that part of the country that they personally own.

You are so right unfortunately.


alex