$1000 to spend - Help!!!

dugnsuz (Doug) · #1 04-09-2005, 06:29 PM

Hi All,
I've just come into money!!
I've got $1000 to spend on a telescope.
I'm seeking suggestions from the members of this forum as to the best buys in Oz at present.
All types of scope are acceptable.
I was looking at a good quality small refractor (WO Zenithstar 80) through to large Dob.
I would love to do some beginners astrophotography down the line but I love the big scope "Wow" factor too - so I'm undecided between an EQ mounted scope or a Dob for purely visual
Any thoughts greatfully accepted.
Gear at present - 15x70 binos and a cheapish Optex camera tripod.
Ready,Steady...
Cheers

Doug

Astroman (Andrew Wall) · #2 04-09-2005, 06:42 PM

Check out Lee's Andrews website at http://www.andrewscom.com.au you can buy a pretty cheap, good quality dob for that, add another couple of hundred and you could have a 12" GSO with crayford focuser.

Or an orion 80mm refractor for half that, and enough left over for a nice TV EP.

acropolite (Phil) · #3 04-09-2005, 06:48 PM

As much as I hate to say it, a large dob is the best value if your needs are visual. If you're intending to do astrophotography then your budget's a bit lean. GS dobs from Andrews or Bintel are excellent value and offer best performance for your dollars. If you budget is somewhat elastic you may wish to come over to the dark side and get a go-to scope..

seeker372011 (Narayan) · #4 04-09-2005, 07:00 PM

See Chris Venter's presentation on the minimum recommended configuration for astrophotography

http://www.dslrfocus.com/support.html

(click on the link to the SPSP presentation to view Powerpoint slides)

and be afraid..be very afraid

....The issue is that astronomy and photography are both relatively expensive intrinsically so combining these two different aspects of the hobby naturally ups the ante a fair bit.

as for the best buy....I'm sure plenty of people will advise looking at Andrews Communications Systems or Aquila Opticals, both Sydney based but ship everywhere

like politics, amateur astronomy is about compromise.. the good news is that once you accept this, you can start making some trade offs and arrive at something that will work for you. for example, webcam/LPI imaging could just squeeze into your budget..if you compromise on the scope you buy

dugnsuz (Doug) · #5 04-09-2005, 09:07 PM

Hi,
thanks for the replies.
Seeker, the link you supplied was informative and sobering.
I had hoped to enter the astrophotography world via a camera piggybacked on a short tube refractor and EQ3 or EQ5 mount - this looks doubtable.
So a rethink is in order (a political u-turn).
The 10 inch premium Dob from Andrews looks the best buy in terms of aperture versus portability.
A few questions arise though!
1. A few years ago I bought the same scope from Bintel (didn't use it much, and sold it due to an interstate move soon after). It arrived perfectly collimated with the rear tin plate removed to allow the mirror to cool I suppose. Can I expect the same service from Andrews?
How easy would it be to remove the tin plate myself - has anyone done this?
2.Is the premium version (Crayford) worth the extra cash?
The R+P focuser on the Bintel 10 inch seemed OK.

Cheers for any feedback in advance.

Doug

cventer · #6 04-09-2005, 09:56 PM

Doug,

I am the author of that sobering read. Dont give up just yet. That presnetation was all about getting into Deepsky astrophotography. Ie pics of Galaxies, Nebula etc.... This type of astrophotogrpahy is not cheap to do well.

However there is nothign stopping anyone getting into wide field astrophotography will a camera lens piggybacked on a EQ mount. An EQ 3 mount that is well polar aligned will allow you to track without star trails on a 50mm lens for 5 minutes plus .... With modern DSLR's like 300D, 350D etc... you can takesome very fine milky way shots.....

It all depends on your expectations and what you consider to be decent results...

$1000 is not going to take you too far in the imaging department, but if thats where your interest lies longer term, then start buying bits now that can make up a good imaging rig later.

I cant say enough good things about the ED80 scopes from Orion/Synta etc... They wotn give you the big apperture wow factor but are still stunnign visual scopes and brilliant scopes for astrophotography....

Good luck with your decision. I would suggest keeping an eye out for 2nd hand gear to save some money. Once you decide what you want, place a wnated add here and on astromart adn see how you go.

Best Regards
Chris Venter

elusiver · #7 04-09-2005, 10:38 PM

Doug.

1. No. That's why you pay more from Bintel. Scopes from bintel come centre spotted and collimated, whereas the andrews come with neither. If you're comfortable with centre spotting your primary yourself(it's not that hard).. collimation would probably be knocked outta whack anyway during transport from bintel.. but u will get better service from bintel.. the staff are very knowledgable and helpful edit: not that andrews arent helpful of friendly, but bintel are more 'specialists'. The plate on the 8" was simple to remove on my 8", so I'd assume it'd be the same or similar for the larger versions.

2. the crayford is awesome. I was kinda doubtful and thought my old r&p was smooth, and asked myself "how much better can it be".. but it IS! definately worth it imo.

el

davidpretorius · #8 04-09-2005, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugnsuz

1. A few years ago I bought the same scope from Bintel (didn't use it much, and sold it due to an interstate move soon after). It arrived perfectly collimated with the rear tin plate removed to allow the mirror to cool I suppose. Can I expect the same service from Andrews?
How easy would it be to remove the tin plate myself - has anyone done this?
2.Is the premium version (Crayford) worth the extra cash?
The R+P focuser on the Bintel 10 inch seemed OK.

Cheers for any feedback in advance.

Doug

No Andrew won't collimate it for you. I got mine (10") shipped to Tasmania and was only slightly out of collimation. I have removed the mirror for centre spotting and that was very easy. I do not have much problem with cooling as i leave the unit out there about 1/2 hour to 1 hour before i start observing.
Yes to the premium. Me and a couple of the tassie boys compared the standard 8" dob focusser and my crayford and to me it seemed well worth it.

As you can see by my signature, i have outlined costs. I hope to have tracking via stepper motors in the next two weeks and then i can update as to the final cost to get some deep space images via a motorized dob and modified toucam and whether it is worth the cost!

I saw acropolite's LX90 in action on friday night and was very impressed, but as the buys mentioned, the price goes up. I really hope to motorize the dob, so that you can in total spend $1500 odd dollars and get a 10" newtonian that tracks. Then it really is up to the camera and what it can produce

dugnsuz (Doug) · #9 04-09-2005, 10:56 PM

Thanks davo and el,
That's cleared up those 2 particular issues.
Cheers
I'm off to bed now!!

Doug

davidpretorius · #10 04-09-2005, 11:22 PM

pleasure doug

janoskiss (Steve H) · #11 04-09-2005, 11:36 PM

At $1000 I'd forget about imaging. You might get something usable but it will probably be a most basic setup, maybe an EQ mount for a camera. A photography worthy EQ mount that can support a decent scope (even a small one) will probably cost more than $1000. Dobs on the other hand; Well there you can get something rather impressive.

Doug, in your position, this is what I would buy with $1000:

Deluxe 10" Dob $699
7x50WP binos $119
upgrade all 4 eyepieces to at least GS Ploessls (insist on this! Do not accept the default Series 500 EPs.) $60 (approx)
Delivery $60 (approx)

and if budget allows (this is going just a bit over $1000):
- Orion Shorty Plus apo barlow from Sirius Optics $135 (probably best price in Oz and the dealer is local for you) and maybe
- upgrade the eyepieces to Synta Super Ploessls (I don't know how good they are, but they are rumoured to be better than the GS Ploessls).

In my opinion, the wide field binos are a must have accessory for star hopping and locating interesting targets. The 15x70s you already have are no good for this because you can't hand hold and scan the sky with them (unless you're a giant of course). I had the AOE 7x50s (till I lost them recently) and found them to be very good in terms of contrast and light transmission. The Andrews 7x50WPs are supposed to be very similar (according to AOE).

With the Andrews Dob, I would insist on no colour filters, even if its only a few bucks off. They are most likely useless.

cometcatcher (Kevin) · #12 05-09-2005, 12:33 AM

You could get a fast 6-8 inch newtonian on GE mount, mount a guidescope on it and get hold of a second hand film type camera body cheap for around the $1000 mark, maybe a little more. You would be shooting deep sky through the scope straight away, on film.

A Digital SLR camera will cost $1000+ on it's own.

iceman (Mike) · #13 05-09-2005, 06:58 AM

You need to decide if astrophotography is really what you want to do - as the others have said, the initial cost outlay is one thing, but there will be additional costs further down the track. It's expensive with time as well, software, processing, there's a lot to it.

If you just want to do solar system astrophotography (planets/moon/sun) then that's a bit of a different story, and a webcam will get you going, and the mount doesn't need to be as good as for DSO stuff (an EQ3 would be fine).

For visual, the 10" dob is perfect and fits within your budget. The premium version IS worth it just for the focuser alone. Regardless of Bintel collimating your scope or not, you will need to learn how to do it yourself when it arrives - transportation can throw it out anyway. If you own a dob, you need to learn how to collimate. It's as simple as that. You have to get good at it if you want good views. It can mean the difference between seeing details on the planet, or not.

Also I strongly suggest you try to get to some of the meets around the brisbane/SEQ area - you'll see the different types of scopes available, get to look through them, and yuo may get to see some imaging going on and you can see what's involved.

Good luck!

ving (David) · #14 05-09-2005, 10:22 AM

er... spend it on me

I cant add to whats been sugested, but I will say this... if astro pics of DSOs are going to be your thing then you are better off saving your money than buying a dob.

RAJAH235 · #15 06-09-2005, 01:03 AM

Quote:

transportation can throw it out anyway.

I'm going to ask another 'silly' question here.(Please move if in wrong place Mike). Why does everyone's, (well it seems like everyone's, lots of references), DOB need to be *recollimated* after transporting to an observing site? Surely, if done correctly, with all these GS t'scopes with the lock screws etc *nipped up*, there would be no reason to RECOLLIMATE. I transport my Meade with no probs., & it doesn't have LOCK screws. Perhaps an article by someone who owns one????
An example??? Start with, undo the lock screws till they are almost out of the cell, CAREFULLY tighten down the 3 collimation screws till they *BOTTOM OUT*. Then back off 1 1/2 to 2 turns. Collimate normally from there. This puts max tension on the springs which should hold it in perfect collimation. ONLY IF YOU FEEL IT NECESSARY, just *NIP* the lock screws, but check the collimation again after this.
This should solve your *out of collimation* problems. If it doesn't, then buy a MEADE.

L.
HTH someone.

asimov (John) · #16 06-09-2005, 01:10 AM

OR stronger springs....

janoskiss (Steve H) · #17 06-09-2005, 01:13 AM

L, The mirror cell might be well secured, but the mirror can still shift a little unless the clamps are done up tight, but then you'd get a pinched mirror. But my scope usually holds collimation well after being transported.

RAJAH235 · #18 06-09-2005, 01:15 AM

Hi John, That's another way. Double valve springs, eh?

Steve, Meade mirrors are *glued* to the wooden/chipboard cell. No side clamps! Perhaps a mod here for the GS's someone?
I just noticed, I have over 1000 posts too!!!!!!!

L.

RapidEye · #19 06-09-2005, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asimov

OR stronger springs....

Yup, those springs on the GS Dobs are not that great - certainly would be a good and probably inexpensive upgrade.

I heard a rumor a while back about some retailer over in Europe was developing a kit along those lines. I have no idea what the cost or ETA is, but keep your eyes open.

IMHO - it would be great if the kit included longer screws as well as stronger springs and better friction washers.

iceman (Mike) · #20 06-09-2005, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Why does everyone's, (well it seems like everyone's, lots of references), DOB need to be *recollimated* after transporting to an observing site?

Laurie, i've got no evidence that everyone's do need to be recollimated, but what I suggest is people check it anyway as it can be thrown out by transportation.

I know for a fact that my collimation stays pretty much perfect during transportation and session to session, and all that's required most times is a tiny tweak of one of the springs.

However that may not be teh same for everyone, so the advice I'd prefer to give is, if in doubt, check and re-check.