Lets talk about nothing..

xelasnave · #1 08-11-2008, 01:44 PM

Folk use the term ...nothing...easily without any contemplation of the implications of the word ..indeed who can entertain the concept that we call nothing.

We have nothing left in the biscuit tin and nothing left in the tank..but in truth there is always something..in the tin and in the tank there still is something..if only air...but there would be dust and fumes respectively to mention a few of the remnants of each vessel.

Bojan replied recently to my question (in science section) which I asked somewhat with tounge in cheek ...

"what is on the other side of everything (meaning the universe)"

and he replied...."Nothing"

and most of us being humans and knowing what the word means are happy having formed a view of an absence of everything..I get a mind picture of the universe sitting as a glowing sphere in a sea of nothing... but how can there be nothing I wonder..

What happens at the boundry of the Universe at the fence line between the universe and the stuff we would describe as ......nothing...Do photons from the very first moment of creation (in the big bang sence) bounce up against the fence of the universe and not pass out into nothing?

Does the cosmic background radiation reach a point where it runs into the boundary fence between the universe and nothing and get turned back.

AND most of all if there be nothing can it have dimention...after all it is nothing so one wonders how any of our four popular dimentions can be used to describe it... if there is nothing there is nothing to be measured...not lenght or depth.... not even time..one could speculate such is so...if so one may ask well how wide is this nothing on the outside and how old is it?

Does the universe float in a sea of nothing ... if there is a single photon passing thru I suspect that region could then not be called nothing...so to be nothing it can contain not a single particle or pulse of energy...

So what are your thoughts on nothing or is nothing really always a very small bit of something.

alex

xelasnave · #2 08-11-2008, 01:47 PM

and into what medium does the Universe expand into...and dont say nothing as it must expand into something and that something must be something and certainly not nothing...

alex

Ian Robinson · #3 08-11-2008, 01:53 PM

Well , I want to know what "nothing" actually is.

To my knowledge there is actually no such thing as "nothingness".

ooo..... this might get deep ....

xelasnave · #4 08-11-2008, 02:04 PM

Maybe its like dark matter its there but we can not see it..but we have worked out it must be there and so it is...

well if it is there can we see some please..nothing or dark matter ... if there is so much of it we should be able to "hold" some ... how would you know if the box you are holding held either

I feel the absence of nothing must ofer an infinite universe as a real posibility .... and while we are at it...in what medium did the big bang take place..nothing? mmm the Popes version of events is looking better

alex

Ian Robinson · #5 08-11-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Maybe its like dark matter its there but we can not see it..but we have worked out it must be there and so it is...

well if it is there can we see some please..nothing or dark matter ... if there is so much of it we should be able to "hold" some ... how would you know if the box you are holding held either

I feel the absence of nothing must ofer an infinite universe as a real posibility .... and while we are at it...in what medium did the big bang take place..nothing? mmm the Popes version of events is looking better

alex

Nope , dark matter is something and not NOTHING.

Also unlikely for lots of deep physical reasons the monoblock ("singularity") that sporned the universe existed in a realm of nothing as well .... no I do not have time to go into details for my conclusion but even logically it makes sense that there was actually SOMETHINGNESS surrounding it "BEFORE". The Pope (and the Bible) is completely W R O N G .

At that point I depart this vacuous discussion before it becomes much ado about nothing. Bye.

casstony · #6 08-11-2008, 02:11 PM

There was recently nothing in my bank account....... is that a real nothing?

xelasnave · #7 08-11-2008, 02:19 PM

Definetly not...there will be fees to be added
alex

xelasnave · #8 08-11-2008, 02:22 PM

In the most remote part of space (inside our universe) a photon or a packet of energy from everyplace in the Universe will be passing through... think of it there is no place where a part of something does not pass thru..

there may be only one hydrogen atom per cubic mile but the energy packets will still pass by....

but on the outside what will we find...nothing???

alex

leon · #9 08-11-2008, 02:26 PM

Tony, you may have something here, we all, or most of us have bank accounts, but what is this in reality, it is a number given to us when we hand over our hard earned cash, however our money dosn't sit in a special place with our number or name one it.

If it did there would be something in our bank account, no, once our money is deposited into that account, it is gone, because the bank uses it for other purposes, so really there is nothing in our bank account, until we ask for it back, and then the bank goes and gets it from some other place and puts it back.

So there is in never anything in our bank accounts.

Leon

casstony · #10 08-11-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leon

So there is in never anything in our bank accounts.

Leon

That explains why the bank manager frowns when we ask for our money back - he has to materialise something out of nothing. I think that's what got the banking system into trouble - people suddenly realised there was nothing in the banks.

leon · #11 08-11-2008, 03:21 PM

Pretty much on the mark

Tony, even if I need 5K out of the Bank I have to order it and pick it up the next day.

because it is not there the day I need it.

Leon

TrevorW · #12 08-11-2008, 03:28 PM

nothing

Jen · #13 08-11-2008, 03:36 PM

you all think way too much

Grammatically, the word "nothing" is an indefinite pronoun, which means that it refers to something. One might argue that "nothing" is a concept, and since concepts are things, the concept of "nothing" itself is a thing. This logical fallacy is neatly demonstrated by an old joke that contains a fallacy of four terms: if nothing is worse than the Devil, and nothing is greater than God, then the Devil must be greater than God:

The Devil is greater than nothing.
Nothing is greater than God.
The Devil is greater than God.

Clauses can often be restated to avoid the appearance that "nothing" possesses an attribute. For example, the sentence "There is nothing in the basement" can be restated as "There is not one thing in the basement". "Nothing is missing" can be restated as "everything is present". Conversely, many fallacious conclusions follow from treating "nothing" as a noun.
Modern logic made it possible to articulate these points coherently as intended, and many philosophers hold that the word "nothing" does not function as a noun, as there is no object that it refers to. There remain various opposing views, however—for example, that our understanding of the world rests essentially on noticing absences and lacks as well as presences, and that "nothing" and related words serve to indicate these.

leinad (Dan) · #14 08-11-2008, 04:04 PM

lol, some great topics xelasnave. here's my 2c attempt.

..this 'nothing' must be something; have been something, or becomes something.. If the universe is expanding, then this nothing must become affected by something, or becomes something, however if it was was infinite, it couldn't exist? Something would be infinite of nothing.

now to go take my daily dose of crazy pills, LMAO

leon · #15 08-11-2008, 04:14 PM

I can see this thread going crazy,

what to do on a wet day

Leon

GeoffW1 (Geoff) · #16 08-11-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

At that point I depart this vacuous discussion

I love nothing more than a good pun.......

An invisible man marries an invisible woman.
The kids were nothing to look at either.

Cheers

Jen · #17 08-11-2008, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffW1

I love nothing more than a good pun.......

An invisible man marries an invisible woman.
The kids were nothing to look at either.

Cheers

Ian Robinson · #18 08-11-2008, 05:38 PM

^^

xelasnave · #19 08-11-2008, 06:46 PM

This thread is an opportunity for all to say something even if they say nothing.

Man I am bored..it is raining on and off..rather light to heavy rain... the batteries wont hold a charge such that I can run the lap top but if I switch it off and just recharge it does recharge... so at least I get a break...

Well if there is nothing outside our Universe and as nothing can have no dimension does that mean we are smack bang up against the Universe next door....

This weather is a pain... got my new camera and got the old one working but rain rain rain... its all Al Gores fault and his global warming...either him or his mate Al Ninyoh ..

even got the 12 inch next to the bed so I can look out the window at the sky...or lay in bed with the binos doing the same... anyways the dark has passed with no joy... so all that is left to do is read about dark matter and wonder about the science behind the idea.... man they are setting up a super computer to simulate an environment where dark matter rules... will this offer proof of dark matter or will it offer proof that you can model anything even if it is not there (my belief as you may have guessed)...

Saturday night and she is finally gone it is so good to be alone ... and get a rest from the astrology lectures.....sigh.

alex

Kal (Andrew) · #20 08-11-2008, 06:59 PM

Just to tickle your fancy Alex, but as the universe is expanding, where is that "space" coming from? It appears to be coming from nothing!