Meteor Shower "Orionids" 21/10/2007

Meadehead · #1 10-10-2007, 05:05 PM

Would I be able to see the Orionids metior showers, maximum being between 20-22 October from my backyard? Apparently observers in the southern hemisphere will see around 40 per hour - thats 1.5 per minute.
I plan to sit out in the backyard with the kids, pending weather, and any advice would be welcomed.

fringe_dweller · #2 11-10-2007, 03:21 AM

Hi John,
the short answer would be, i don't see why not!

last year the Orionids put on an surprising amazing and unexpected/unpredicted display. there was some reports last year from NZ!! of sightings in the 100's, from experienced observers i know of well.
With many bright members, from memory could of been an average of +2 magnitude!, I think.
There was some fisheye low light video imaging done from Melbourne by a member of this forum, that was very impressive.
The threads are here somewhere.
The moon situation looks kind and it nicks off in time for the potential show(s) which would be around 3 am to 4 am when the radiant is highest (EDIT: thats not hard and fast, last year i think the best times was around midnight, 11pm, from lucky forum members reports last year, depends on the peaks, but the moon is up then).
whether this one would be like last year *who knows* I havent seen one explanation of lasts year 3 day long unusual peak yet still ..(it goes for 2 or 3 days broad maxima, being the days either side of the 21st i would assume, with smaller maxima's within) ..or any predictions for this year outside of normal routine predictions

avandonk · #3 11-10-2007, 08:18 AM

John here are the relevant threads from last year. To save you searching.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=14356

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=14325

Here is one that went across the entire visible sky.
http://avandonkbl.bigblog.com.au/dat...1011082831.gif

I hope to do it again this year with two GStarEX cameras with different fields of view.

Bert

fringe_dweller · #4 11-10-2007, 06:20 PM

thanks Bert!, doesnt get any better an idea than a timelapse animation of full sky view, of what to expect! easier than describing it lol
- but visual observers can see down to mag +7 meteors from a very dark site (no lights observable) Bert's cameras aren't getting all the fainter ones, just the brightest ones mostly, when you take that into account re avi, the mind boggles!
i hope to catch some visually mebbe, and i look forward to seeing your results Bert - clear skies to all!

fringe_dweller · #5 12-10-2007, 12:08 PM

lol i should read the namn notes more closely!
here is some interesting stuff on last years Orionids, and prospects for this years, and on - looks good!!!

http://www.namnmeteors.org/namnnotes0710.html

scroll down to october highlights/orionids

loomberah (Gordon) · #6 13-10-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avandonk

...
Here is one that went across the entire visible sky.
http://avandonkbl.bigblog.com.au/dat...1011082831.gif
...
Bert

I'm not sure of the time scale for those images, but it looks more like a satellite to me- it is way too slow for an Orionid. Even if it was a meteor, it wouldn't be an Orionid- it has the wrong "radiant".

Gordon

avandonk · #7 14-10-2007, 06:30 AM

The 'exposures' were 2.6 sec each. The Gstar can integrate up to 128 frames. In the third frame it went across more than half the sky in 2.6 sec. It did come from Orion as the fisheye has a curved field. Check out the stills in the second thread.
I just record them, its for others to explain them.
Bert

loomberah (Gordon) · #8 14-10-2007, 08:07 AM

OK, 2.6 sec per frame is much shorter than I was expecting, I guess the clouds were moving fairly fast!
I traced the path (in Guide8) through Canopus, just missing Sirius and it puts the possible radiant in Gemini, quite close to Northern Orion, and it is a fairly diffuse radiant I believe, so its likely to be an Orionid.
It is an unusually long path though, considering the radiant is above the horizon (hard to tell exactly though, as it is out of the field and I don't know the time of the exposures... so it may well be at the horizon). You generally only get such long paths with the radiant at the horizon, so the meteors skim through the atmosphere at a very shallow angle overhead.

Gordon

fringe_dweller · #9 14-10-2007, 02:48 PM

yes true it doesnt follow the meteor path length travelled one third of distance from radiant rule, but from NAMN notes

'c) METEOR LENGTH TO RADIANT RELATIONSHIP - The closer a meteor emerges from its radiant, the shorter in length the meteor will appear. If it appears right in the radiant, it will appear as a star suddenly brightening and then disappearing (known as point meteors). The further a meteor appears from the radiant the longer the path of the meteor normally appears. Associating meteors with a shower using meteor length is difficult at first, but with practice becomes second-nature. A useful rule to remember is one developed by the International Meteor Organization which states:

"For radiant elevations higher than 30° the apparent path length l of a shower meteor amounts at most to half the distance from the radiant to the start point. Consequently, the distance between radiant and start point of a plotted meteor on the chart has to be at least twice as long as the meteor path itself if the meteor is a suspected shower member."'

or the average speed for Orionids/parent body

and as you said its a shallow entry/earthgrazer, larger particle and they dont follow the rules so much? plus the path is foreshortened with regard to viewer as the radiant isnt above 30º

I checked out pedigree on some of those last year, and most complied

and i cant find it now, but as you said its a large radiant, is it a 10º diameter radiant?

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #10 17-10-2007, 01:52 PM

I am happy to report that for the last 2 nights the Orionids have already sent some lovely bright meteors across our dark sky. Short but bright

I have been checking after 2am on both nights and haven't been dissappionted.

Hopefully 22nd should be a nice show

Anyone else seen any Orionids yet?

Meadehead · #11 17-10-2007, 05:52 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone

I must say, some of the explanations went over my head

as I hope the Orionids will

So it appears it will be worth keeping the kids up late for a show - Hopefully there will be some good reports

mickkk · #12 17-10-2007, 06:06 PM

I have heard 4 reports in the last 7 days of meteorites? being observed in central vic around 8-10pm, the latest with orange sparks and smoke trail and suspected to have landed somewhere!

With the forecast for Vic and the early AM rugby matches on the TV, should be a great weekend for spotting!

Please Huey............just this once!

loomberah (Gordon) · #13 17-10-2007, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickkk

I have heard 4 reports in the last 7 days of meteorites? being observed in central vic around 8-10pm, the latest with orange sparks and smoke trail and suspected to have landed somewhere!

...

No meteorites found yet though? it would have been big news, just meteors in the sky I suspect. They are probably not related to the Orionids though, if they were seen that early, the radiant is well below the horizon.

Gordon

fringe_dweller · #14 17-10-2007, 07:13 PM

Thanks for the reports/update Ken! nice one

keep em comin if you can!

I havent been outside late yet to look, but on a walk early evening last night saw a very impressive fireball, about as bright as the crescent moon! I dont think it had pedigree tho.

John, there is rarely much in the way of gaurantee's with meteor showers, but there is such a thing as increased/favourable odds!
the only reason there is mention of anything out of the ordinary possible is as mentioned, there was some interesting activity last year with orionids, and in history, elevated or enhanced activity beyond routine stuff, usually comes in batches of years. Say 2 or 3 years for example, so prospects, while not very scientific maybe, are statistically/anecdotally better perhaps, than years prior.
usually meteor showers are better in the years prior to and following when the parent comet or body has made a recent pass. in this case Comet Halley is the parent body, and its last inner solar system of course was in 1986, so thats why there is some doubt and scepticism from the pro's that anything is going on out of the ordinary.
Time will tell! this weekend in fact!
unexpected outbursts of activity have happened in history many times.
Last years surprise peak happened a day before the predicted and weaker main peak - I reckon sat night/sun morning is as good as anytime if limited to one night, plus there is less moon interference earlier.
anyway ill be out there, i hope! weather looks ok i think
dont forget plenty of warm stuff!

erick (Eric) · #15 17-10-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadehead

So it appears it will be worth keeping the kids up late for a show

I think you'd have more success if you can get them to sleep for some hours before you go out at 2am.

alan meehan (Alan) · #16 17-10-2007, 09:22 PM

after many ,many nights of watchimg for metoer showers i hope this one is going to be good the weather in newcastle is its gloomy self at the moment heaps of cloud,i will be out fri sat sun nights ,hope it all goes well

fringe_dweller · #17 20-10-2007, 05:35 AM

Spent around an hour and a half watching for Orionids this morning from my outer suburban backyard, last session finishing near 4 am. Only saw 5 orionids all up - nothing super speccy or out of the ordinary either - oh well, will try again, not peak yet I 'spose

erick (Eric) · #18 20-10-2007, 11:06 PM

This weekend, Fri/Sat was the only overnight I had available - and the weather looks suspect for Sun/Mon. So I jumped out of bed at 1:30 and headed for the hills with my comfy chair and blanket, coffee and radio.

From around 2:30 until sunrise I saw about a dozen meteors, most of which were definitely coming from a radiant point in Orion. A couple fairly bright. All were very fast.

Stayed to watch Saturn and Venus rise, then headed for home and a few more hours sleep.

I'm happy with what I saw.

circumpolar (Matt) · #19 21-10-2007, 08:38 AM

Sunday morning from 2:15 - 4:05am.
Lying on the trampoline in a sleeping bag.

I saw 21 meteors. 20 of which were Orionids and one was a stray.
Only about 3-4 were bright and left trains. All were whitish in colour.
Also saw 6 satellites.

I saw less meteors last year using the same method (sleeping bag & trampoline) but many more bright one. About 10 from memory.

h0ughy (David) · #20 21-10-2007, 08:55 AM

i was up this morning from 1.30 through til 3.30 - I counted 14 wtih two bright ones and at 3.30 there was a satellite, which was easy to see that really suprised me because of the time. I was too tired to stay up any longer was going to watch the rugby but then I thought better of it. Also the fog rolled in at that time - it was a very dewy night here.