The amatuer/non-expert helpline thread

[J.A.L]

I just typed a big post and wasn't signed in and lost it, it took me half an hour to write to get the info and research I did in. I registered just to ask help. This is so hard.



Now I'll just have to be briefer, wish I could get my last post back, you prob like this one better anyway it will be huge and I know people won't often read these large posts!!! I feel I have to explain though.

Basically I have no idea about this. I want to buy my husband a 30th Birthday present. I saved for years for a previous combined gift so he could chose his telescope, he got a:

Meade LX200R 10 inch Advance Ritchey-Chretien with GPS & AutoStar II Hand Controller.

He is much more knowledgeable than me and is in to and understands the technical side a lot more, so I imagine I frustrate people being here when you guys can all talk together and understand each other and you'd say something to me and I would barely understand you. I would be the daftest most likely in this whole forum so I apologise.

I'd like to get a Barlow and 1 or 2 eyepieces, not interested in filters at this stage, he only has what came with the telescope and is eager to use his knowledge, interest and talent. I want to give a decent gift, nothing beginnerer but a quality brand, not cheapest either, definantly rather it not need upgrading or never get replaced than go cheaper now and need to do it in a few years. I'd spend anywhere up to $500 even give or take, but would like to keep it around $300 if possible. I'm getting online to keep it a surprise. I've went to Bintel, Space and Astronomy, Astro Opticals and mostly spent time and research to send an email to Star Optics for advice as this is where we got the telescope from being more local to us. Some help and feedback from you guys would be great, I was thinking a list of what you think best, or what you would buy from your experience or want to get as a dream gift from someone?.

I spent last two days reading most of this forum, I get that opinions are personal on brands in particular, I've read disheartening things on Meade but I also am wise enough to know it is always going to be personal, some luck in the draw and good research and desicion in the first place. My husband picked Meade as a brand he thought was good after his research at the time a few years back.

I took notes which I won't say all in here now, I just had to try to learn. List I started is either of these:

Meade's
14mm S4000 UWA (leanign towards this as opinions broadly on S5000 seem to be it is lacking in quality and this is much better for the money and feature differences between this and the new models in the S5000 range?)
14mm S5000 2UWA (someone mentioned 8.8mm better, I think it was to do with this eyepiece I was planning to make sure I read specs on each eyepiece online to see if I spotted 8.8)
Series 4000 2X APO Barlow (I really think a Barlow is a must just need to decide on which one? Like idea of Meade since telescope is that but maybe I'm just being scared, this model sounds great though)

I also read about coating on glass is important, and protective coating needs to be on all glass parts, I am learning about 1,2,3 or 4 air glass surfaces. I actually even resorted to reading well trying to read, having to skim over parts of a 61 page article "Evolution of the Astronomical Eyepiece"

I did want to get him maybe a Barlow, an Extra Wide and something to see planets and that would work while tracking. I heard him mention an eyepiece for when he was tracking, at the time I didn't think much of it until I realised the array of options and how hard it would be. All brands fit too I thought I'd be limited to what would match our telescope therefore easier to research and chose but I was wrong.

I also noted broardly the following are reccommended: TeleVue 32mm Plossl, 24 or 27mm Panoptic, 30mm Pentax XW and a 13mm LVW (which I think was a Vixen, you guys abbreviate a lot since you know what you are talking about when you talk to each other). I think I'd not get a Celestron, no particualr reason I'm just trying to cut my brand options. Naglar I couldn't get a feel on, seems too advanced if that makes sense from reading what has been discussed, seems harder for me to work out and choose in that brand without someone's who's done the leg work. I always thought I'd get Meade atleast in the main thing like the Barlow but I don't want to be close minded either. I did like the idea of only getting Japanese or US made but unless that is stated on the website I find it hard to talk to sales reps without seeming stupid and then not being able to keep up. I did do up a few emails I'm waiting on prices back and I think I did OK from researching.

I tried to take note of comments from people with same as us or what I thought was similar telescope to us. Someone who uses an 18inch now lets his son use his old 10inch so I found his opinion valuable since he compared them in a post.

So I understand it is a lot to ask. I get there is obviously presonal preference involved and dependant on use and desire. So I can say basically I'd love a list of a handful you would suggest, would be great people who use same telescope or had extensive experience with one ofcourse but I value any help and appreciate it. A great start for his telescope ina simple list that I could just price and order from a website would be great. For seeing planets, for seeing stars and galaxies and tracking and for seeing as far as possible. Obviously clarity and least destortion, sharp vision, he dosn't wear glasses but is a computer programmer so eye relief is important but I know he would sacrifice that a little for clearer or sharper quality, he'd just rest and go back to it. I have noticed people say if you want to look for extended periods of time you sacrifice some softness for the relief?

Now that I've typed this same subject for an hour I'm just going to cross my fingers I've been understood and try not to feel so annoyed I lost my first post.

Thankyou very much if you can help and in advance for your time in comiling a simple list for what I was trying to explain, it is appreciated.

[erick (Eric)]

Hi J.A.L., and thanks for registering.

Sorry you lost your first post. Sometimes, if the site or internet is hiccuping, I make a habit of copying all the text to clipboard from time to time, while I'm writing a long post, so I can put it into Word or something and save it if I lose contact!

The experts will soon advise, but I suspect a little more information on what your husband enjoys viewing may help. Splitting double stars is one thing, looking at detail on planets is another, looking an star clusters is another, looking at nebulae is another. What does he talk about when he tells you what he has enjoyed looking at?

Eric

[Louwai (Bryan)]

A wife who puts so much efort into her husbands hobby. Are you sure you like the husband you have. I'm certainly available.

& just to put in my 2c worth in. I have an 8" SCT with just 3 eye pieces. William optics 28mm UWAN + LVW 17mm + LVW 5mm. I also have a Willian optics 2 x Barlow. all 2" & used with 2" diagonal & 2" focuser.

[davewaldo]

Hi JAL,

You seem to be on the right track so far with your research... just to help narrow things down, Does your husband wear eye glasses when he uses his telescope?

Dave.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by J.A.L

I want to buy my husband a 30th Birthday present. I saved for years for a previous combined gift so he could chose his telescope, he got a:

Meade LX200R 10 inch Advance Ritchey-Chretien with GPS & AutoStar II Hand Controller.
...

I'd like to get a Barlow and 1 or 2 eyepieces ... a quality brand ... not need upgrading or never get replaced than go cheaper now... I'd spend anywhere up to $500 even give or take, but would like to keep it around $300 if possible.

Wow! You're the dream wife every man on this forum would want to have!

I'd recommend you look elsewhere other than Meade. Just because the telescope is a Meade, and it is a damn good one too!, does not mean the EPs need to be. The Meade Apo barlow in particular is not a good one for the money and the UWA 5000s (certainly the 14mm) fall well short of much of the competition. In barlows I'd look at Televue barlow or 2.5x powermate and the Orion Deluxes (my personal faves with the best contrast). Deluxes are long barlows tho so you'd need to find out if they work well with the RC telescope.

In EPs, I'd get him Pentax XWs unless his heart is set on ultra wides (80+ degree field of view) in which case Naglers are an obvious choice.

Most importantly: For general purpose observing, and deep sky in particular, you'd need an EP near the 20mm FL given the scope has a focal ratio of f/10. My faves would be 20mm Pentax XW and 20mm Type 5 Nagler. Perhaps 22mm Type 4 if eye relief of the Type 5 is not enough.

For planets something in the 8-12mm range is good. Planetary EPs need not be widefields with a tracking scope. The Pentax XFs 12 and 8.5mm would do very nicely here as would a 12mm UO HD orthoscopic (Frontier Optics). Vixen LVs are great if you want more flexibility in choice of focal length and long eye relief.

EP choices esp at the top end become very much of personal preference so it's hard to make definite recommendations for someone else, but I'll do it anyway:

20mm Nagler Type 5
12mm Pentax XF
8.5mm Pentax XF

These EPs I have used and loved and they are simply brilliant. And no barlow. The 8.5mm will yield plenty of magnification so you won't need one. If he is really power hungry could go a 6mm TMB Planetary also but I personally would not bother because you'll already see everything the scope can show you at lower powers.

In addition you'd be looking at one more low power eyepiece some time in the future for taking in bigger chunks of sky. From all reports TMB Paragon 40mm seems like a good choice there within your price range but I have not used one.

Good luck, and god bless your generous heart!

[DJVege]

Welcome J.A.L.

And to you for going through so much effort for your husband! He's a very lucky guy!

You've given a range of $300 - $500 max for a barlow and 2 EPs (Eye Pieces), right?

Ok, I'm still a n00b (newbie) at this, but I can at least tell you that the Naglers will be too expensive, so you can cross them off the list! (If you're not deviating from that price range)

Janoskiss, the 20mm nagler Type V is $619...unless I've missed something.

I can suggest the Orion shorty plus 2X barlow which is $139 from Bintel. I have it and it's great!

I'll let the experts suggest more EPs.

Good luck!

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by DJVege

Janoskiss, the 20mm nagler Type V is $619...unless I've missed something.

Sure but the XFs are just over $200 so it evens out. Otherwise 20mm Pentax XW instead of the Nagler comes in well under $500 - only reason I did not recommend that as 1st choice is because I have not used that particular focal length XW myself and because the 20mm T5 is my fave of the whole lot of the Nagler lines.

[rmcpb (Rob)]

J.A.L welcome to IIS I see I have missed the que to be your second, third, fourth husband so will just give up gracefully......

As to your question which, I might say has been well put. I agree with Steve that an eyepiece around the 20mm mark would be very useful so, unless you have your heart set on ultra wides, you could consider either:

• a 19mm Panoptic with a 68 degree AFOV and 13mm eyerelief at $335 or,
• an 18mm Radian with a 60 degree AFOV and 20mm eyerelief at $329 (better if he needs to wear specs when observing)

One of these coupled with a Televue 2x barlow at $149 would give your extremely lucky husband a wonderful range.

Cheers

[casstony]

Since eyepiece characteristics vary so greatly the choice of eyepiece becomes a very personal thing. If my wife sat me in front of the Bintel website on my birthday with a few hundred dollars worth of gift vouchers I reckon I'd have a good time..............and being a guy, I wouldn't be bothered by the missing romantic aspect of the gift voucher

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

Originally Posted by casstony

Since eyepiece characteristics vary so greatly the choice of eyepiece becomes a very personal thing. If my wife sat me in front of the Bintel website on my birthday with a few hundred dollars worth of gift vouchers I reckon I'd have a good time..............and being a guy, I wouldn't be bothered by the missing romantic aspect of the gift voucher

I think that this is a great idea giving gift vouchers...okay, some people feel that it is not as "personal" as a direct gift but on the plus side he can clearly get what he wants/needs...

Since it sounds like the role of 2nd, 3rd 4th husband is already taken, let me be the first to offer mysellf up for adoption...heck, if you are this thoughtful in looking for a gift for your husband, being one of your kids must be incredible!!!

Good Luck!

[J.A.L]

Thanks to you all for your help I was worried I would frustrate people lacking detailed knowledge.

erik - I usually do that but was caught up in my notes and just when I thought about atleast highlighting and copying I'd done the dreaded click and hit the back on the browser and it was gone Thanks for your understanding though I was really annoyed about it at first . James talks about a variety of things when it comes to astronomy and I can admit now that I've read so much I truly didn't understand or pay attention enough to convert into the information I need to decide. I'm not that good of a wife I wish I had have run off and wrote down some comments now. He has said about tracking, he even said he saw an eyepiece he wanted to use so "casstony" your post was great as I didn't even think about a voucher I didn't know they get done. I still like their site so I can think of that even as my last resort so thanks. He also has commented about waiting for the telescope to climatise which I didn't realise so as he's waiting he ducks inside goes to his computer and looks up things, he gets engrossed. I know he loves looking at the details of the planets. It's me who'd love to take pictures but I didn't comment on here as there seems to be a bit of a "thing" between users about imaging so I wasn't sure to venture in to those waters when this is so out of my field. Plus I'd rather get him something he can use a lot and for viewing, to get into imaging I imagine it is far dearer even if the thread in my digital camera is what one person emailed and asked if I had I could get a mount, even so I know it's time exposure issues etc and that's something to get in to down the track once he gets more use of his telescope. Running our own business he gets little time and is still getting use to his telescope. I think getting eyepieces would give him something more to "do" with it if that makes sense.

He dosn't wear glasses either.

So not to put a huge post again as I know I avoid lots of text I just want to thank you for all your feedback it has helped. mcpb and Steve I do appreciate and janoskiss that is what I wanted too, some honest feedback. Until I started researching I just assumed Meade but once I read so much I realised there may be a better option and getting advice from those who love and use telescopes and in their "home turf" is extremely helpful, I was losing my drive and patience and needed it to be easier. Yes, very slack of me.
Louwai, Dave and DJVege it all helps and I thank you all again for helping me hone in on the perfect thing to get.

Atleast I can redeem myself by giving a voucher another time if I do get him something, if it wasn't exactly what he'd get the options below would still be very useable, give him a better experience and I could get the voucher for Christmas or next years birthday (since if I spend more we combine b'days and xmas as we are both either side of it, plus we often spend something on life general stuff together, 30th is suppose to be special though). Then he can pick his own favourite piece then

EDIT - P.S - Finally I now get what EP's stands for, now I feel extra stupid I normally worked out most of the abbreviations, even less obvious ones than that and you know what just knowing that actually helps heaps. I think I thought it was a whole other style of "EP" , notthat it actually stood for simply eyepiece!!

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by J.A.L

I got a weird PM though which put me off Bintel a little but I'm sure other places do them and I still like their site so I can think of that even as my last resort so thanks

Please don't judge any dealer on the basis of the odd bad report. No matter how many satisfied customers there will always be some disgruntled ones surely. And people have off days on both sides of the fence. I'm sure you could pick any dealer and find someone who is unhappy with them.

Bintel are one of the best to deal with IME as well as those of many others. In Melbourne they are certainly THE telescope shop afaic. Closer to your home in QLD, I've dealt with Frontier Optics and Star Optics and found both great. And they both sell Pentax XWs.

[J.A.L]

Thanks janoskiss, you are correct, I would use any place, everyone stocks similar and if they had what I was after at a reasonable place, not too dear and even not too cheap, I've noticed all the main places have a good rep from customers on here and that's what matters more in the end.

We used Star Optics to buy our telescope so I lean towards them anyway; being closer to us and I'm glad to hear feedback so thanks again. I've been re-reading yours and others posts and they really are helpful, things even make more sense to me now.

If I get cold feet I would end up fessing to James what I'm doing so he can decide, I could do up a keepsake hand made voucher or something then sit him down with my notes and I'd point out the helpful forums and he'd find it easy as!!! I'll see though you have all been helpful and if I can pull something off it would be nice to give him something to open as neither of us are big birthday people and don't often celebrate!!!!

Thanks again this has been so much better and everyone is really kind.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Are you going to sign Hubby up in here after this suprise is over?

Then he can tell us what he thinks of his new toy! And his terrific wife too

[J.A.L]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

Are you going to sign Hubby up in here after this suprise is over?

Then he can tell us what he thinks of his new toy! And his terrific wife too

Yeah when I signed up I used a basic user name not one I'd chose for myself so I could give him this account. I wouldn't have much to contribute so this was only ever going to be my posts. I'm way behind him with knowledge.
Don't know if he would use it but I thought if I get stuck I'd make up a special card and he could read up and chose so might even "spoil" the surprise yet if I can't decide, it is so personal chosing a EP. He researches himself before getting things to do with it.

When I finished saving for the telescope I made a poem that I wrote on a starry sky background, framed it and wrapped it and just watched his face as he realised what I meant, then after a shocked hug he was on the computer looking up his sites he already had in favourites when he was only dreaming about it - lol Plus we put a little extra of our combined money towards it in the end too, that was a bit my fault though as I wanted something that would reach to the horse nebular

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi JAL,

Welcome to the group. I am probably the bloke you referred to with the 18" scope that lets the kid run riot with the 10"

Congratulations to you on coming to the forum and asking for advice rather than spending a lot of money on something unsuitable. While reputable stores like Bintel and some others will generally give very sound advice, they dont carry all brands so their advice while always be biased towards the products they sell.

The Meade 10" RCX400 telescope your husband has is a fine instrument and is deserving of the highest quality eyepieces, which unfortunately aren't cheap. The scope comes supplied with the S5000 24mm Meade UWA which is a reasonably good eyepiece. There are certainly better eyepieces around this focal length, but they are very expensive and the Meade will do fine.

Steve (Janoskiss) has given you good advice already. I concur with him and would avoid buying any more Meade eyepieces. While they aren't bad eyepieces, there are certainly a lot better eyepieces for the same price or not much more money. I will also add that the Meade barlow you are considering is a 1.25" barlow and will not fit the existing 24mm eyepiece your husband got with the scope. If you get a 2" barlow your husband then has the luxury that it is useable with all eyepieces, both 2"and 1.25".

The scope has a 2000mm focal length. Ideally I think your husband should end with the following eyepiece set or close to it.

1) A low power widefield eyepiece like a 40mm Pentax XW or a 40mm TMB Paragon.

2) The existing S5000 24mm Meade UWA will do for low/medium power. The 26mm Nagler is a lot better but about $800.

3) Something from 12mm to 17mm would give around 120X to 160X and be ideal for medium power views. Consider the 17mm Nagler T4, 16mm Nagler T5, 14mm Pentax XW, 14mm Denkmeier, 13mm Ethos, 13mm Nagler T6, 13mm Vixen LVW, 12mm Nagler T4 and the 12mm Pentax XF.

4) Something of higher power around 9mm or 10mm focal length. Consider the 10mm Pentax XW, 9mm Nagler T6 or the 8.5mm Pentax XF.

5) Lastly, something around 7mm focal length for high power views under good seeing. Consider the 7mm Pentax XW or the 7mm Nagler T6.

My long term list would comprise.

40mm Pentax XW
26mm Nagler T5
13mm Ethos
10mm Pentax XW
7mm Pentax XW

Unfortunately all those add up to a lot of money so you probably don't want to go there at the moment. On the basis you can't afford to get to this list in one go, I would recommend in the short term buying a 17mm Nagler T4 and a 2X Televue Big Barlow. This will cost about $820. This gives your husband an effective 4 eyepiece set of 24mm (83X), 17mm (117X), 12mm (167X) and 8.5mm (234X). There are certainly gaps but this option covers most observing situations reasonably well.

Have you considered selling the kids or a kidney for him and buying the full set of eyepieces I have recommended straight off the bat?

Cheers,
John B

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by rmcpb

I agree with Steve that an eyepiece around the 20mm mark would be very useful so, unless you have your heart set on ultra wides, you could consider either:[list][*]a 19mm Panoptic with a 68 degree AFOV and 13mm eyerelief at $335 or,[*] an 18mm Radian with a 60 degree AFOV and 20mm eyerelief at $329 (better if he needs to wear specs when observing)

Rob,

The supplied 24mm UWA gives 83X in that scope and a 20mm eyepiece only gives 100X. I think the next step down needs to be a shorter focal length between 12mm and 17mm.

If you did want to buy something at this focal length and were considering the 19mm Panoptic at $335, an extra $40 buys you the 21mm Denkmeier and an extra $100 buys you the 20mm Pentax XW, both of which are infinitely superior eyepieces to the 19mm Panoptic and a lot more comfortable to use into the bargain.

Cheers,
John B

[wolfman]

Hi and welcome,
If its a 10" LX200R then it has a focal lenght of 2500mm not 2000mm as suggested.
A 26mm 1.25" EP if that is what comes standard will give 96X,
I would suggest perhaps getting the Shorty Orion Barlow as this will give him a 13mm EP using what he has and the Barlow giving him 192X, which is plenty for Planets I think, so perhaps a 17 or 18mm EP to give him around 150X will cover a good spread of power without huge costs,
I find a lot of time is spent viewing at lower power (around 60X at wide angle) So you could consider an EP of around 40mm, these will set you back a bit more but around $150 to $300 (meade 4000 40mm Plossl $109, meade 5000 40mm Plossl $309) will get somthing decent, more of course if you think you can spend it will buy better but if he is new to this its not really somthing he will notice.
I'm not really sure what Diagional comes standard with the LX200 but upgrading to a 2" Diagional is a good investment as well.

Consider'
Meade 4000 40mm $109
Orion Stratus 17mm $199
Orion Shorty Barlow $139
Bintel 2" Diagional $95
Total $542
Prices from Bintel web site.
And maybee a Orion Dew Shield? if he dosen't have one. $59

I try to get get jumps of magnifaction of 50X, that way 4 EP will be all most people will ever really need, (or if your smart 2 and a Barlow)
Anything over 200X is rarely used.
My 2 cents worth.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by wolfman

Hi and welcome,
If its a 10" LX200R then it has a focal lenght of 2500mm not 2000mm as suggested.

You're right. I based my post on the scope being the 10" RCX400 which is F8 with a 2000mm focal length and not F10 like the LX200R. I don't know why I did that because that's not what she posted. Must be too late at night

Cheers,
John B

[J.A.L]

Thanks wolfman and John B

These are excellent posts and really help me know how to go. It is so personal and so many; also trying to get more info from hubby or suss him out would only give away what I was doing,. especially since all of a sudden I know some termonology and even that he only has a prism and not diagonal mirror and even just the small details!!! . I'm thinking of getting his help, we aren't huge Birthday people but I can still do up a keepsake message or something or get a book as well or something and write in the front cover. Still a gift and reminder he can keep with other things from me or I can scrapbook or something. Probably a bit too girly talking about stuff like that here though

I am so greatful, I know James always researches despite his knowledge so either way I go if I get something or fess to him I think this leg work and all I read everywhere and especially here would be a load of time and work he wouldn't need to do.

I'm so glad you are all so nice andhelpful I thought I may have been annoying in a forum full of people who even with basic knowledge would know more than me in practical use anyway. The time to reply and help me research has been appreciated more than you know.

P.S - John B - what would you change your dream list to now for our telescope out of curiosity? I also really liked how you explained a simple extra injection of cash would get a superior and obviously an EP that would "last"/ be used more I really like knowing that as that is how I think. I have thought about going a little higher but haven't got a kid to sell yet and would probably not go that way Maybe a kidney or just some extra overtime might be the go lol By the way it was you and I was hoping you'd see this post, I was too gutless to just PM you, plus I can compare everyone's likes dislikes this way to get a broarder idea across many interests and purposes even though the main goal of almost everyone is a good experience and fun exploring their telescopes abilities. This is such a great way to get advice.