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  #1  
Old 08-09-2007, 02:17 PM
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ngcles
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What is the future for _amateur_ astronomy?

Hi All,

Far from a totally original topic for discussion, this subject was the centre of a discussion started by a respected US amateur/telescope maker Mel Bartels on a mailing list I subscribe to and I was fascinated with the strong divergence of opinion. Some were all doom and gloom, some thought we were doing alright as a hobby, others saw a very bright future.

As most of those who participated were US based amateurs, I wondered if there were different thoughts here. Having been in the hobby for quite a while and having seen a lot of change in amateur astronomy I'm intrigued as to what shape it will be in down the track. Maybe you are too!

So, get out those crystal balls and start pontificating on how our hobby/avocation will be carried out in maybe 5, 10 or 20 years from now.

Just a few questions to get the thought juices going, but don' let them limit you on what _you_ want to prophecy.

Will astronomy clubes/societies etc still be relevant and/or growing and why?

Will communities like Ice In Space affect the clubs/societies?

How do you percieve the threat of light pollution -- will it kill us (metaphorically)?

Will the CCD revolution kill visual observing?

What will the "kit" of the amateur astronomer be like?

Will the contribution of amateurs to the science of astronomy change and how?

Will amateur astronomy only be practiced by the well-heeled or will it diversify further?

Will amateurs still be making telescopes/equipment?

Just to get the ball rolling ...

Best,


Les D
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  #2  
Old 08-09-2007, 02:33 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Just my own thoughts:

Will astronomy clubs/societies etc still be relevant and/or growing and why?
Growing. There is more interest in Astronomy these days and it is increasing.

Will communities like Ice In Space affect the clubs/societies?
The development of many sites like IIS, SCP, Australian Astronomy, etc will affect clubs/societies, but only in the positive by creating interest in the first place.

How do you percieve the threat of light pollution -- will it kill us (metaphorically)?
Yes, to a point. I see the future as a time where more people will make an effort to visit dark skies, making an observing night a more organised event rather than just pulling the dob out of the shed for an hour or two. So, trips to dark sky sites should increase viewing time.

Will the CCD revolution kill visual observing?
No. Many people prefer 'visual' and beginners start with visual. Visual won't die.

What will the "kit" of the amateur astronomer be like?
We already have a plethora of great equipment at reasonable prices now, which was unheard of 10 years ago. It can only get better. A kit now includes GoTo's, DSC's, cameras etc, whereas it used to mainly consist of mostly just a scope. I don't think it waill change much now. Maybe more computers in the field.

Will the contribution of amateurs to the science of astronomy change and how?
Yes, because more of us are using better gear and getting better at using it. And more people getting into Astronomy. That's more eyes on the sky to notice more things.

Will amateur astronomy only be practiced by the well-heeled or will it diversify further?
It won't change. There will always be people at different levels of interest and expertise. But I believe the level of interest will increase.

Will amateurs still be making telescopes/equipment?
Yes, some people are die-hard ATM'ers.

Remember, these answers are just my views on the questions
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  #3  
Old 08-09-2007, 02:41 PM
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I feel it will grow and current signs suggest such although I must say that is an impression.

Places like here will take the sport further and faster than local clubs and in fact get local groups together I feel having experienced this on the Northern Rivers...

For me I am 60 now so I expect CCD will be the only way I will get to see anything as the age sets in...even now I find I sortta use the camera that way... when I get into the dsi thing I hope to see it on the tv inside in front of the fire... cold plays havoc as you age ..or at least thats the way of it for me.

The market is getting wider and more competitive so building will cease to be an economic choice but founded on the building a better mouse trap principle..even now one can buy things cheaper than the cost of the materials... if you scrounge its cheap but retail says it will be dearer.

I will leave other questions unanswered for someone else
alex
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  #4  
Old 08-09-2007, 03:00 PM
CoombellKid
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The future of amateur astronomy is looking up, pardon the pun. You have
to remember the group your talking (which I'm a member too) is mainly
based in the US. one only has to look at their light polution chart to see
good dark skies over there are starting to get scarce.

If the hobby turns more to the well heeled, then ATM'ing will pick up again
most of todays market come from there.

regards,CS
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  #5  
Old 08-09-2007, 03:36 PM
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I have not looked through a telescope apart from a finder for many years. The old hassles of waiting for good dark adaption are gone unless you are at a dark sky site. In the increasing gloom of urban light pollution the only way to go is to use filters to minimise light pollution and digital sensors for recording images. I myself am in the throes of perfecting narrow band imaging with large achromats so even the Moon is no longer an inconvenience.
Optics and digital devices have never been cheaper and will get even better and still reduce in real costs.

I think the future is very 'bright' for amateur Astronomy.

The only caveat is what one really wants to do! If direct visual observation is the major aim then getting away from any light or other pollution is mandatory. The very large good quality dobs now relatively cheaply available are also very good at collecting unwanted light.

I think it is a bit like life. You only get out of it what you are willing to put in yourself. Sharing is also very important, hence the existence and popularity of this site.

Bert
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  #6  
Old 08-09-2007, 04:01 PM
Rob_K
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Oh for a crystal ball…….

I think amateur astronomy will prosper as the night sky will always be a source of wonder, but light pollution will continue to make inroads into people’s enjoyment. Clubs/forums will also prosper, as humans require this form of social interaction – it’s more than just astronomy.

Two things I do see in the not too distant future though – cheap large mirrors made of new materials that can be accurately cast, taking away the need for glass & grinding. And astonishing viewing (and imaging) created by linking large amateur scopes across the world to form arrays, acting as a vast ‘interferometers’ aided by improved enhancement techniques. This will be the point where astronomy science will actually become reliant on amateur networks for a significant percentage of their data…….

Or not!

Cheers -
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  #7  
Old 08-09-2007, 05:46 PM
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I think it can only go up. Equipment continues to improve and at the same time gets cheaper (look at the affordability of a 10 or 12 inch dob). IIS is a good example of the growing level of interest at the moment, participation in clubs can only grow. IMO Visual observing will always remain popular, for some, there's just no substitute for seeing something with your own eyes, an image isn't always better, no matter what the quality of the image. Finally on the subject of light pollution, I feel the problem will, in time, solve itself. There are already places in Europe where the streetlights are turned off after a certain time at night. The energy savings from turning off streetlights should be an important part (and for that matter the first step) of energy conservation.
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  #8  
Old 08-09-2007, 11:09 PM
astro_nutt
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I can see the interest in Astronomy growing to a wider slice of the Community..I do a bit of handyman work at the local Primary School and get asked to give talks on Astronomy and also give viewing sessions..( quite a few parents did buy their kids a scope for Xmas from a reputible store!)..
I have noticed an increase in leaning about outer space...A lot of subjects taught in Schools realitive to Earth science is largely obtained via computers..however learning the sky does take a more specialised approach..unless Schools start building their own Observatory.
I think the future of Amateur Astronomy equipmentwise is that telescopes will be smarter, not larger...concepts in digital technology may develop an optical system that will produce images from other wavelengths other than visible light to a quality of that produced by a DSLR...so the size of the optics may not be what's required..but the power of the imageing processor!!
As for light pollution...maybe LED lighting will find it's way into streetlights using a narrowbeam cluster coloured amber in a special diffuser which reflects the light so the lightsource isn't visible (like covering the filiment of a lightglobe)
I think that dark sky sites will become harder to find and that a trip away to the bush will become the norm for anyone wanting to do some quality viewing/imagining..etc..more or less like it is now...
Oh well!!...that my 2 bob's worth!!
Cheers!!
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  #9  
Old 08-09-2007, 11:16 PM
Glenhuon (Bill)
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I believe the local state school here in Coota has an (unused) observatory, just been waiting for the opportunity to talk to someone who has knowledge of it. I'm sure it just needs someone to have the time to get it back in operation. There is no doubt about the greater affordability of telescopes and imaging equipment, when I got my first telescope (and still have it, I'm a Scot, never part with anything LOL) a 25mm 1" Kelner eyepiece cost me $70. I could now buy a usable plossl for 2/3 of that. Listening to younger folks around there is no doubt that the interest in space and astronomy has grown, probably through the internet but also there seems to be more about it in the news on TV and print. Talking with my partners daughter (13) I was quite pleased with how much astronomy comes into the science lessons at her school, something that was sadly lacking in my day. The amateur astronomer is here to stay, and will I think continue to make increasing contributions to our knowledge of the universe.

Last edited by Glenhuon; 08-09-2007 at 11:39 PM.
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  #10  
Old 08-09-2007, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenhuon View Post
I believe the local state school here in Coota has an (unused) observatory, just been waiting for the opportunity to talk to someone who has knowledge of it. I'm sure it just needs someone to have the time to get it back in operation.
Jump on it, man, jump on it!!!!
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  #11  
Old 09-09-2007, 08:53 PM
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Will astronomy clubs/societies etc still be relevant and/or growing and why?

I think so, yes. There's no substitute for getting together with fellow amateurs.


Will communities like Ice In Space affect the clubs/societies?

Inevitably there will be some drift away from clubs/societies in favour of the internet forums, but see answer above.


How do you percieve the threat of light pollution -- will it kill us (metaphorically)?

I think that, with rising fuel prices and growing concern about human-driven climate change, we will see more efficient, less polluting lighting systems installed. I don't know about Australia but here in the UK people - even non-astronomers - are very aware of the problem and the battle against light pollution is beginning to turn in our favour. So, no, I think we'll be okay on that front. Sure, it'll take time but we'll be alright.


Will the CCD revolution kill visual observing?

Emphatically no! Not all of us want to do imaging and not everyone has the means to do it either. The CCD 'revolution' happened a decade ago, visual observing is still alive and well. I think things have settled down after all the initial hype.

What will the "kit" of the amateur astronomer be like?

Much the same as now I guess. There'll be some armchair observers downloading pictures from a remote scope via the net but most of us will still observe using the usual gear.


Will the contribution of amateurs to the science of astronomy change and how?

I don't think so. But as I don't do any 'scientific' astronomy, I just do visual observing for my own benefit, I can't really say.


Will amateur astronomy only be practiced by the well-heeled or will it diversify further?

It's not just for the well-heeled. I am far from well-off (I don't even have a permanent job) and I can still observe. You can profitably observe with the naked eye or with a pair of binoculars. Scopes aren't as expensive as they once were (unless you can afford to fork out for a 30" Obsession). You can have as much or as little gear as you want.


Will amateurs still be making telescopes/equipment?

Yes. We're an ingenious bunch and where there are observers there will still be ATM's.
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2007, 09:16 PM
Shawn
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Lets not overlook the technology of the future, whereby all the fancy gear you spend a fortune on will superceded with a super high resolution cellphone with adaptive optics, . Everyone will be an amatuer astronomer if they so desire....
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2007, 10:17 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawn View Post
Lets not overlook the technology of the future, whereby all the fancy gear you spend a fortune on will superceded with a super high resolution cellphone with adaptive optics, . Everyone will be an amatuer astronomer if they so desire....
That's an interesting point, Shawn! Cell phones.

Possibly Celestron could install a miniature DSLR inside the MySky. Point, get told what it is, and get a snapshot to download

The future could hold all sorts of ideas we haven't though of yet. Otherwise we'd have them already
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2007, 10:24 PM
Jarrod
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my opinun is that astronomy really seems to be getting more popular as a hobby, and i think it will become far more popular in the future as technology allows space exploration to become easier, and space becomes more appealing to the general public.

but here is my opiniun as to how it will be in the not too distant future, maybe 20 years from now...

1. Will astronomy clubs/societies etc still be relevant and/or growing and why?

astronomy clubs/societies will remain relevant because we will still need/want to meet other amateur astronomers and observe socially.

2. Will communities like Ice In Space affect the clubs/societies?

online astronomy communities will reduce the size of all clubs, but mostly clubs in country areas where members must travel longer distances to meet. but the astronomy society will never completly disapear.

3. How do you percieve the threat of light pollution -- will it kill us (metaphorically)?

people are becoming more concearned regarding the use of enegy, so light pollution will remain the same or even decrease as time goes by.

4. Will the CCD revolution kill visual observing?

ofcaurse not! many people prefer to observe visually, and those that don't still glance at the odd object now and then.

5. What will the "kit" of the amateur astronomer be like?

computer technology will become far more common, and telescopes will get larger as they become cheaper to manufacture.

6. Will the contribution of amateurs to the science of astronomy change and how?

the amount of amateur contribution to science will reduce as more money and better technology is made available to professionals.

7. Will amateur astronomy only be practiced by the well-heeled or will it diversify further?

as space exploration becomes more common place and astronomical equipment becomes cheaper more people will become aware of astronomy as a hobby.

8. Will amateurs still be making telescopes/equipment?

not as much as we are now, but people get a real sense of pride when they create something with our own hands, and it ATM will remain a part of amateur astronomy.

in general im pretty optimistic about how the hobby will progress.

Jarrod
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2007, 10:34 PM
AJames
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The Future of Astronomical Society Future is not good....

To the question; "Will astronomy clubs/societies etc still be relevant and/or growing and why?"


After many decades being involved with many amateur astronomical societies, I think the astronomical society as such is an irrelevant dying dinosaur, and will be very unrecognisable within the next few decades. In my own view, the concept of the astronomical society has been almost dead for over a decade - applying equally to similar social groups in many different subjects and interests.

My reasoning is as follows:
In Australia, the first of these astronomical groups started in the 1890's. These and were to be usefully started as the go-between between the growing amateur observers and the rising professional astronomers. In those days the need for amateurs was important, as they could watch the skies when they wanted to and observe phenomena away from the rigours of the large observation projects like the important Southern Astrographic Survey, double star measures, etc. Amateurs then were able to contribute in things like searching for comets, and the like, but also had the ability to do it as a passing interest. This then evolved into more of an educational role, where the amateurs became the means of disseminating information to others new to astronomy.
In summary, the only role of any astronomical society is to gather those of like interests so that they can discuss, hear lectures, and learn about their hobby from each other.
However, the rules of this have changed dramatically in the last 10 to 15 years. Technology and access to the Internet can already fulfil many of the traditional roles of astronomical society – even through services like Ice in Space and many others. Now people can discuss their hobby anytime twenty-four hours a day, and do so even some specialised forum that happen to take their own interest.
No longer does astronomical information disseminated through the local Society, but is gained immediately through access of web groups (blogs and web pages), or by profitable commercial enterprises or even the government professional observatories or facilities. If I need to find out say about a new bright comet, like last year's McNaught, I can find out through the media or websites without ever speaking to another person. It is more far cost effective to spend your money on an Internet connection and to be able talk to a world of amateur astronomers, than to waste time getting to and from some astronomical society meeting with only at best dozens or so
Yet the true death-knell of the astronomical society is the costs to become a member and participating. These are both financially and personally – often by having to coping with the limitations imposed on individuals. I.e. The time or date when meetings are available, the topics them members are interested in, etc. etc. As the majority of astronomical societies know, but never discuss why with their members, only roughly 10% are 20% active participants with the rest remaining unseen and unheard.
I think it is because of the structure of the Society itself and the need to elect a yearly-long committee as an authority. Importantly Committees really do need to run and manage the Society, but at the same time, they have to maintain some cohesion and direction among the membership – building teams three or four times beyond the fixed number on the Committee board. Sadly, in my own experience, they can never seem to be able to do both – leaving either the impressions of dictatorial policies and controlling attitudes or conversely the membership with no control just end up as a lasse-faire bunch who get together only to pass the time.
Committees should work together to form the directional core of the group that looks and feels in the background - but often this only ends up with the Committee being the only ones to really benefit from the group facilities or interactions. Experience finds that how this inner group behaves has a direct effect on either joining the other members to the whole group and Society's overall success. Committees will working together nearly always develop good friendships - sometimes surviving beyond the group - which can be perceived by the membership as exclusive and controlling - even if it is not. Often this is highly effective tool, but in the vast majority of cases, it actually dictates the duration that some members will stay or how much they participate - and even the number of members the Society will retain at any point of time. (Those successful astronomical societies, by the way, will have a high turnover of those serving as committee members.)
In my own personal view, the developing of the "us and them" attitude between the Committee and its Membership, and in how strong the division is, will often be the corner-stone of the general happiness or despondency among members. As time goes on, perhaps only one or two years, acts of selflessness will then be replaced by more destructive or negative motives - like doing things for their own benefit, through boosting ego, personal gain, fame, etc. - than for doing things common good of the group. If the members are not interested, then forget them and do things that interest me, for example. Too often, this is base cause for weakening or even dissolution of the Society or its ideals, where others just move on and then do there own thing.
There is also a growing and worrying trend in amateur astronomical ranks with the introduction of university-based education and certificates. This is slowly developing a new underclass of amateur astronomers influencing Society development and leadership within the group. While these courses are still expensive to do for a whole year or six-months, the aim is to produce basic information to mid- to high-educated people. Admittedly, while some personally benefit to the individual, but there are several who want to believe this qualifies them as above others in the amateur ranks who may have more experience or personal drive – and thus really act as semi-professionals. A few have proven to be very influential on the directions of astronomical societies - some good, some quite detrimental.
I think that the future will be in video conferencing or YouTube like presentations. No longer with some professional astronomer come to some astronomical society, but the members will go to these institutions electronically and hear and interact with lectures - on a country or even the global stage. No only is it cost and time effective, it means that work made by the main observatories and institutions can be made to a larger audiences - and will only have to be done once instead of doing several times to different groups.
Observational astronomy will also have to be revised significantly. Apart from the spread of light pollution and expanding population centres, the cost to the environment in regular travelling to distant star parties away from the cities. Already with the costs of petrol, observing away from urban skies is becoming a rich persons game. In the recent past, it has been the single male (and a smaller number of females) without any ties to family commitments who are dominate in this domain. Those in committed relationships and children remain in the minority, and those who passionately participate have one partner who started observing before they were in a committed relationship. The change has already started with the current rise of the costs of living; I.e. Food, Housing, travel costs; and observers having to cut corners to do what they want.
I could say a lot more, but I am very interested in what others have to say on the topic...

*********************

Andrew
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Old 09-09-2007, 10:38 PM
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with global warming and more h2O particles in the air we are all doomed.

Gazz
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2007, 11:07 PM
IanL
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So, get out those crystal balls and start pontificating on how our hobby/avocation will be carried out in maybe 5, 10 or 20 years from now.

Just a few questions to get the thought juices going, but don' let them limit you on what _you_ want to prophecy.

Will astronomy clubes/societies etc still be relevant and/or growing and why?
I think clubs will go and internet will take their place but the hobby will grow

Will communities like Ice In Space affect the clubs/societies?
Yip as above

How do you percieve the threat of light pollution -- will it kill us (metaphorically)?
It will never be as good as it was years ago in totall dark skies and we will continue to struggle with light pollution.

Will the CCD revolution kill visual observing?
I think CCD will take over visual. Eye peices will be the same as valves, nice to look at but never get used.

What will the "kit" of the amateur astronomer be like?
CPU and GPS based. Star hoping will become a thing of the past and knowing your way around the sky by eye will too. I also see a time when we will only go to the scope to insert a different camera and everything will be done remotely from anywhere in the world.
I also see viewing on the PC going as well. 20 years from now it will be hollograms. And we will wonder how we ever go by with the PC.

Will the contribution of amateurs to the science of astronomy change and how?
I rekon it will stay the same

Will amateur astronomy only be practiced by the well-heeled or will it diversify further?
NA

Will amateurs still be making telescopes/equipment?
Yip their will always be the folk that are intrested in that side of it.

Cheers
Ian
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Old 10-09-2007, 12:06 AM
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DSO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Law View Post
Will the CCD revolution kill visual observing?
I think CCD will take over visual. Eye peices will be the same as valves, nice to look at but never get used.

What will the "kit" of the amateur astronomer be like?
CPU and GPS based. Star hoping will become a thing of the past and knowing your way around the sky by eye will too. I also see a time when we will only go to the scope to insert a different camera and everything will be done remotely from anywhere in the world.
And that's when I will quit, I think...
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Old 10-09-2007, 07:20 AM
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iceman (Mike)
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An interesting thread and discussion.. some good thought-provoking questions raised, thanks Les.

My take on it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ngcles
Will astronomy clubes/societies etc still be relevant and/or growing and why?

Will communities like Ice In Space affect the clubs/societies?
These two are quite relevant to be answered together.

I think clubs/societies will always have a place but I think only the largest and most financially secure will survive. Andrew James pointed out well some of the issues that clubs and societies have to face. Of course that's not limited to astronomical socieities - the same points would be true for a local knitting society or remote control car club.
The growth of the internet, and information available on the internet at a moments notice via websites like IceInSpace - the ability to ask questions and have them answered, show your equipment and/or your images and get feedback and advice from people not just in your local area but from people across Australia and the world, make it a much more attractive prospect to newcomers to the hobby, especially young people who are tech-savvy and to whom the internet and forums are not a scary prospect.

It's no secret that the demographic of amateur astronomers is fairly limited - it's mostly middle-aged or older males, and most of the membership of astro societies are those people. Luckily though the demographic is expanding. More younger people are getting into the hobby and slowly more females too. But will these people join astro societies are will they stick to the internet?

A lot of people are scared of the perceived politics, or us and them attitudes in astronomy societies. So that's why I say that people may stick to online and only the large societies will remain.
But there really is no substitute for hands-on observing and help from other amateurs like you. Astronomy can be a lonely hobby if done alone. It really is much more exciting and rewarding when you can share it with people nearby. So astronomy societies will still have a place, for that reason, but more and more often I think people will end up in local, unstructured observing groups rather than formal clubs and societies, which have the need to form committees and the inherent politics that goes along with that.
Local unstructured observing groups have problems of their own though, such as:
- Where do they observe? Public or private property?
- Who organises it?
- Who is responsible if something goes wrong, someone gets hurt or something gets damaged?
These gathering really are on their own, but they can be extremely rewarding if everything comes together.
There's no substitute for hands-on help for newbies when they're having trouble collimating or finding a target, or even aligning their finderscope.

When people used to want information about astronomy, they'd look up their local club. These days, using google they can find the information they want on the internet or they join forums like IceInSpace and ask the question there. I do believe clubs/societies do need to think about what their future will bring, but ultimately if the persons question is practical, most times we will recommend they join their local club and go to their observing nights to get practical help from experienced people. And simply to meet people who live near them who are interested in the same hobby.

The future for online communities is growing too though. Your latitude and longitude reveals a lot of information. Personalised information such as moon/sun rise/set times, satellite pass information, what planets/objects are visible right are all available in various software packages or on websites. It can also serve as a basis for location-based groups and get-togethers, such as "find who's near me" - a feature that might find people (who want to be contacted) who can help you with a telescope problem, or who you can go observing with.

People will rely on clubs/societies less for what they used to be used for, as they can get so much more information immediately via the internet, but they will still have their place. They will have to adapt though, or they will not survive.

Quote:
How do you percieve the threat of light pollution -- will it kill us (metaphorically)?
It's definitely a problem. People need to drive further out of the city to get dark skies. Newbies buying telescopes in the city and observing from home may be so disappointed by what they (can't) see, they may get frustrated and give up. If only they had experienced truly dark skies and observing from a dark sky location, they'd be hooked for life.
I see the problem getting worse before it gets better, if it ever does get better. There will always be more lights. Communities grow, new housing estates expanding outside the cities. The only hope is that they change the type of lights they use and shield them from pointing up.


Quote:
Will the CCD revolution kill visual observing?
Yes and No. Already we can see most newbies want to get into imaging. They want to take pictures of what they see. Almost everyone owns a CCD already, whether it be in their mobile phone, a digicam, and even DSLR's are becoming more common. It's not a great leap to then attach it to a telescope or point it into the eyepiece.
The advancing technology of the CCD and devices like the g-star and other "real-time" imaging cameras and devices like the I3 will become more popular and more affordable. So people can "observe" from their lounge-room and on the TV screen.


Quote:
What will the "kit" of the amateur astronomer be like?
In one sense, you'd think that with the advances in technology, in the future everyone will own a computerised, motorised scope like the LX200. And that type of scope has certainly been very popular. But for newcomers, the simplicity and affordability of the basic newtonian on a dob mount has a very broad appeal. The low price for a large aperture dobsonian, and through recommendations by websites like IceInSpace, the humble dob has had a huge resurgance lately and I can't see it slowing down. You can fit the technology to it - for example, a dob fitted with an Argo Navis is all the technology you need for observing.
But if, like I said above, CCD imaging is going to become mainstream, then people will need and want tracking. So maybe the dob is at the peak of its curve right now. It's really hard to say.

Quote:
Will the contribution of amateurs to the science of astronomy change and how?
That's a hard one, and in some way ties in with David Higgins' threads about how amateurs currently contribute to the science of astronomy.
The technology advances in the professional field (larger/more sensitive cameras, wider field surveys, more space-based observatories) will in some way reduce the ability for the amateur to contribute, but on the other hand, the same technology advances (on a lower scale) will also give the amateur more flexibility and ability to contribute.

Quote:
Will amateur astronomy only be practiced by the well-heeled or will it diversify further?
It has already changed from being a pursuit only available to the wealthy, to being available and affordable to almost everyone. Prices have come down a very long way and large aperture telescopes are can be bought for under $1000. Under $400 for 8" of aperture. That's unheard of as little as 5 years ago.
I imagine there'd have to be a limit to how much more the prices can come down - the number of middle men taking a cut and the cost of shipping and raw manufacturing costs will mean they can't keep coming down for ever.
Just like astronomical societies though, astronomy shops will also have to evolve and adapt to the changing demographic and interests of the future amateur astronomer. Shop front stores will always have a place, people want to see it, feel it, touch it and get advice from experienced shop staff before spending thousands on a piece of equipment.
But for people who know what they want, online astronomy shops and mail-order of equipment is definitely the way of the future. It's already happening right now.


Quote:
Will amateurs still be making telescopes/equipment?
Yes, but to a lesser extent. Some people still like to make things, it's in their nature. They like to construct.
I believe that more people made their own stuff in the past for the exact reason I stated above - astronomy equipment used to be so much more expensive than it is now.
These days, it would cost considerably more time and money to make your own 8" newt than to buy one.


Some other thoughts, not covered by your questions..

When big astronomical events occur, it gets people outside and looking up. We saw it earlier this year with Comet McNaught, and we saw it the other week with the total lunar eclipse. We will see it in the future with the transit of venus, the total solar eclipse, future manned moon missions, etc.
When big events like this happen, there's always a surge of interest from people who had a passing interest in space or astronomy, to now wanting to take that dive and get right into.
A little media exposure goes a long way.
Amateur astronomy is a hobby like any other. It will have to compete with the many other distractions of a modern world, and try to attract the attention of an impatient public who want instant gratification.
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  #20  
Old 11-09-2007, 06:35 AM
AJames
Southern Amateur

AJames is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 283
Thumbs up The Age of the Iceman

Iceman and all,

I agree very much of what you say here.

There is a very useful adage here; "For things to change, I must change" - perhaps a useful forewarning to the amateur astronomical organisations that exist in Australia.

What I do find more interesting is regarding the lack or misdirected "terms of service" that our astronomical societies commonly have not and do not continue to offer its members.

Indeed, the core essentials of any such group;

1) The cost of public liability and the costs of somewhere to meeting somewhere are the bare essentials of any interest groups.
2) To offer good communication and knowledge to all the group’s membership. This might be through some journal or via the spoken word, or during gathered meetings or demonstration of methods of observational astronomy. It might also be towards the management or managerial skills of the Society.
3) Develop social and personal interactions between its members.
4) To commit to promoting the ideals of astronomy to the general public.

Of the advice to join up with some Society in your local area - advice I would have given without hesitation ten or twenty years ago. Now I'm no so sure.

Sadly, the socialist ideals are the very Achilles heel of these Societies and Associations in Australia. I do not mince my words in this regard. The non-associative behaviours of many of the elected management often are to the detriment of the Society - which become worst with either long-histories or money. Power corrupts absolutely - as they say - and giving authoritative Committees some semblance of power can be - and is - a common form of abuse against the needs of the membership. Members cannot even really complain about this - except for standing up at the AGM and voting the noncooperative ones out. It has been the now legalised enforcement now overseen by your local government authority - in New South Wales the Department of Fair Trading - who require information on the financial position and democratic mechanisms of the Society via presented Constitutions.
This in recent times has been made quite unworkable and destructive, and it is for this reason the vast majority of people (perhaps 90%) who are interested, say in astronomy, but do not participate in incorporated societies or associations. Those that do decide and take the plunge and join, find that only 10% will be involved in the organisation directly - either as the managing board or as the mentoring individuals providing the Q&A needs of the group.

This is why I say the astronomical society, as we know it, is dying - dying because of the slow and poor changes in the way we communicate knowledge about the subject. The reality is that nearly all astronomical societies are not responding to these liberating changes - and instead of opening there minds and allowing the membership freedom to find their own directions - are becoming more insular and irrelevant to what they traditionally provide.

If you were ask for my advice, if you are presently considering joining an established Society or Association think carefully about what their "terms of service" and whether you're annual fees are really worth it. Frankly you can probably get more out of groups like this one (blogs) or at least find someone to point you in the right direction to find the information you seek.

I would very much like to hear of both the good and bad experiences from all Ice in Space members here who do not post to these threads.

Andrew

NOTE: Another problem on the heavy reliance and burden on several mentors within the group to do the "free" advice and training for the new members - but I'll leave that to another future post...

Last edited by AJames; 11-09-2007 at 02:08 PM.
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