Meager pickin's- Helix Lum

[richardo (Rich)]

Ha all,
as the title implies, it's been rather poor conditions for imaging this
winter in the southern hem...
As Mike has been complaining about


This is a lum compilation on the Helix over a variety of nights.. with really crap
conditions.
Had a stack of others done on a couple of other nights which I just
chucked out due to the softness of
the conditions.
Will wait and get more lum to sharpen things up, add some colour, if and when this weather takes a turn for the better, that is, when the moon takes a hike.

Would like to get some more detail within the ejecta as well as pull out some more of those fainter galaxies to the background.


Just thought I'd post to keep my hand in, it's work in progress.

Details...

Hm made 10" Newt. Bob Royce primary, Antares 1/20th wave minor.
HX916 with Astronomik clear IR block filter.
Guided ED80/ HX516 on a CI700 mount(modified)
Total exposure time- 1hr 29 mins.
http://www.baytop-observatory.com/cc...elixhanewt.jpg

All the best for now

Rich

[jase (Jason)]

Lovely Richardo. When I first saw the subject line, I thought this was going to be a tough act to follow considering Mike's great work recently presented.

While it is somewhat wrong to compare, I couldn’t resist. Image scale and different filters aside, you’ve produced a magnificent image showing impressive depth. Clearly, aperture is king as you’ve captured some well defined background galaxies that accentuates this great image. Though the lum filter is going to assist in this regard.

I really look forward to seeing some RGB/chrominance data combined. I wouldn’t “skimp” on the RGB collection as you don’t want it to compromise the good work you’ve done on the lum. Well done.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Meager pickings maybe Rich, but you certainly made a meal out of it! That's a great shot - good depth and detail, and if the conditions let you get some more / sharper data all the better. Like Jase - can't wait to see the colour added!

Cheers, Marcus

[iceman (Mike)]

Beautiful image Rich, nicely framed and I love the wispy outer shell to the top left.

I look forward to the colour data!

[Ric]

Very nice indeed Rich, it's looking very detailed already and should be a pearler when the colour is added.

Cheers

[Dr Nick (Nick)]

Very impressive!

[richardo (Rich)]

Originally Posted by jase

Lovely Richardo. When I first saw the subject line, I thought this was going to be a tough act to follow considering Mike's great work recently presented.

While it is somewhat wrong to compare, I couldn’t resist. Image scale and different filters aside, you’ve produced a magnificent image showing impressive depth. Clearly, aperture is king as you’ve captured some well defined background galaxies that accentuates this great image. Though the lum filter is going to assist in this regard.

I really look forward to seeing some RGB/chrominance data combined. I wouldn’t “skimp” on the RGB collection as you don’t want it to compromise the good work you’ve done on the lum. Well done.

Hey, thanks for the comparison here Jase,
yes aperture is the go for sure, but I think any larger than say 10" will really begin to suffer from seeing at times. Or so I've heard??.

Bob Royce said that if a Newtonian mirror is made to high flatness above .96 Strehl, then there's no reason why it shouldn't compare with an apo refractor of 1" less in diameter. I'm beginning to agree with his statement. This primary mirror is really very very good, and is now complimented with the 1/20th wave Antares secondary which has made all the difference with good illumination right to the edges.
The F4 ratio with the aperture size is I'm finding a good balance of speed and FOV with the chip size I'm using.
As you've advised, I will definitely take my time with the chrominance when the chance comes as I know how dim this object is from past experiences. This is generally where a lot of my dimmer images fall down..... not enough colour to play with...

Thank you again for taking the time to coment

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Meager pickings maybe Rich, but you certainly made a meal out of it! That's a great shot - good depth and detail, and if the conditions let you get some more / sharper data all the better. Like Jase - can't wait to see the colour added!

Cheers, Marcus

Thanks heaps Marc,
I just know the sky around here can cough up better, so it will be a patience game. Might be a few sucker sky's to contend with, but it's those dewy iffy seeing nights where the transparency just comes through... they're hard to judge though!
All the best

Originally Posted by iceman

Beautiful image Rich, nicely framed and I love the wispy outer shell to the top left.

I look forward to the colour data!

Thanks very much for taking a peek here Mike and for the
nice comments, appreciated
Will take my time and get heaps of data for the colour..
All the best

Originally Posted by Ric

Very nice indeed Rich, it's looking very detailed already and should be a pearler when the colour is added.

Cheers

Hey thanks there Ric,
after many reject subs, and one night that wasn't too bad, managed to etch out some sort of detail.... was good to begin to pick up those fainter gals as well... there's more there but just are a little muffled at the mo...
hopefully more data will resolve them better.
Cheers Ric....

And a big thank you to all you guys for your comments
Buy yourselves another beer on me ...OK!

All the best
Rich

[skeltz (Rob)]

Good going richard,looks very impressive,and with a couple of galaxies to boot!
Will loook great with some colour added,so on the next couple of clear nights i expect you out there so we can see the finished result.
jolly good show old chap....cheers

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

That's a great grab of the Helix Rich, looks really etheral and mystical to me with good fullness and nice composition too, very well done.

Not sure on the relevance or indeed accuracy of Jase's comparison though? I think the little 6" Starfire holds its own rather well actually .

Those faint galaxies visible in your Lum are never going to show up in Halpha nor are many of the stars that help provide the depth. Since it was narrow band (Ha) and could have thus done with significantly more exposure at F7.5, there is more detail evident in the main nebula and particularly the inner tendrils in this 2Hr's of Halpha I did last year, even with only 6" of aperture .

http://upload.pbase.com/strongmanmik...86072/original

The "depth " is however more obvious in your Lum than my Halpha due to the extra stars and those galaxies and also the less defined structure in the bright regions giving it a billowing look. Lum lets in lots more energy too so signal to noise is much greater, but the fine structural detail is still greater in the Halpha.

A compilation of both is the way to go IMO and I have done this already with your Lum data and my Halpha data and the result is pretty good IMO - best of both worlds now, (havng your slightly larger FOV would have been better though)

Take a look

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...55309/original

I have also just for fun then added my rather "in ya face" full HaRGB image from last year:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...15236/original

to our combined Lum + Ha to give an LHaRGB and it looks pretty good, although the stars are lacking a bit in colour and given the significant difference of the visibility in the the outer faint extensions these areas were hard to process to match in. Adding straight RGB or indeed an LRGB to the Lum+Ha would do the trick but I could only use what I had and this result looks pretty natural in my opinion..take a look at the result:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...55503/original

This was using a non ideally matching data set of course and was processed on the fly. Your FOV is somewhat larger and more suited to framing the main body of the Helix so when you have your matching data sets you should be able to compile a really great colour image!

Now that I have this huge chip, your Lum and my playing around has inspired me to have another go at her myself and shoot for the extensive faint outer envelopes that exist around the Helix trippling it in size....of course, like your area seems to do to, Newcastle may not cooperate?

Hope you didn't mind too much me playing around with your data, it was certainly rather fun

Cheers

Mike

[Garyh]

another fine image there Rich! with all this poor seeing you have done a fine job tightening up the stars and I love the sprinkling of faint fuzzies in the background and the fainter outer halo on the top left..
Can`t wait for the color to be added!!
cheers

[gbeal]

I'm with all the others, it is a stunner, you should be happy. I love my 10" newt for imaging as well, just don't tell everyone, the word will get out.

[richardo (Rich)]

Originally Posted by Dr Nick

Very impressive!

Thanks Nick,
stay tuned soon for the colour version.

Originally Posted by rpsastronomy

Good going richard,looks very impressive,and with a couple of galaxies to boot!
Will loook great with some colour added,so on the next couple of clear nights i expect you out there so we can see the finished result.
jolly good show old chap....cheers

Thanks Rob for the comments
As you know, this weather's a pain. But you know me, if there's the possibility of things being ok, I'll drag my carcass out and make a move towards the observatory with key in hand and faithful astro dog in tow.
But looking at the present weather pattern, don't hold your breath!
But it's all really your fault, all those expensive components for your 12.5".
We'll have ****e for years
But as I've said, this is the winter we had to have but it's still your fault..

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

That's a great grab of the Helix Rich, looks really etheral and mystical to me with good fullness and nice composition too, very well done.

Not sure on the relevance or indeed accuracy of Jase's comparison though? I think the little 6" Starfire holds its own rather well actually .

Those faint galaxies visible in your Lum are never going to show up in Halpha nor are many of the stars that help provide the depth. Since it was narrow band (Ha) and could have thus done with significantly more exposure at F7.5, there is more detail evident in the main nebula and particularly the inner tendrils in this 2Hr's of Halpha I did last year, even with only 6" of aperture .

http://upload.pbase.com/strongmanmik...86072/original

The "depth " is however more obvious in your Lum than my Halpha due to the extra stars and those galaxies and also the less defined structure in the bright regions giving it a billowing look. Lum lets in lots more energy too so signal to noise is much greater, but the fine structural detail is still greater in the Halpha.

A compilation of both is the way to go IMO and I have done this already with your Lum data and my Halpha data and the result is pretty good IMO - best of both worlds now, (havng your slightly larger FOV would have been better though)

Take a look

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...55309/original

I have also just for fun then added my rather "in ya face" full HaRGB image from last year:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...15236/original

to our combined Lum + Ha to give an LHaRGB and it looks pretty good, although the stars are lacking a bit in colour and given the significant difference of the visibility in the the outer faint extensions these areas were hard to process to match in. Adding straight RGB or indeed an LRGB to the Lum+Ha would do the trick but I could only use what I had and this result looks pretty natural in my opinion..take a look at the result:

http://www.pbase.com/strongmanmike20...55503/original

This was using a non ideally matching data set of course and was processed on the fly. Your FOV is somewhat larger and more suited to framing the main body of the Helix so when you have your matching data sets you should be able to compile a really great colour image!

Now that I have this huge chip, your Lum and my playing around has inspired me to have another go at her myself and shoot for the extensive faint outer envelopes that exist around the Helix trippling it in size....of course, like your area seems to do to, Newcastle may not cooperate?

Hope you didn't mind too much me playing around with your data, it was certainly rather fun

Cheers

Mike

Hey there Mike,
thanks for the comments on the lum.

Jase said in his post that it was a non fair comparison, but commented any way.... that's cool, he, like you and I know, Ha will let through only H line light, muting stars and background broadband light objects where this is not present. Revealing more defined and finer Hydrogen structure within the shrouded areas that clear light can't distinguish between/ penetrate.... that's agreed by us all.... naturally of course!.

I'm sure there was no offense meant in anyway... AP refractors speak for themselves! And VB LOUDLY!
Any way, enough of this,... let's get back to what this post's about,.. my image.

I really like your Ha compilation with my Lum.... that's given definately the best of both worlds here and has got me thinking that I will go for some Ha data. In the past I've never gotten any Ha on the Helix... so will go for it. Then get the rgbs down.

Yeah, the extra lum with your Ha will mute the amount of colour data you have already some what.... but you can do a Steve Canistra Lum corrected LRGB composite routine in PS. This gives control to the colour lum/Ha blend ratio. But you'll get your own data down any way for yours...
I remember the collaboration you and Wolfgang did, that came out pretty nice for sure. The ASA/ Starfire/ SX combo.

I don't really mind you using my data as we are on a group here. And kinda fun having our first collaboration together since we always in the past years on the SX goup, seemed to go after the same objects at the same time.... Cool, Sidonio/ Bowden composite... Reckon it sounds better the other way around though LoL

Cheers, hope this weather we had to have, gets into an imagers pattern!

Originally Posted by Garyh

another fine image there Rich! with all this poor seeing you have done a fine job tightening up the stars and I love the sprinkling of faint fuzzies in the background and the fainter outer halo on the top left..
Can`t wait for the color to be added!!
cheers

Thanks for taking a peek Gaz and the comments.
Sharpened the stars up to try and get rid of the softness.

But 'goldarn' this 'goldam' weather.
Fuzzy wuzzy pus is what it's been.
I'm sure you're finding this too. I watch the crud we have, hook into the jet stream and gets sucked straight to the east coast.
Hopefully spring will break the drought and we'll be getting our bags under the eyes back again.

Maybe after this stint of cloud there'll be clear ones setting up nicely for the dark window.... but then there's DLST coming too... dam those politicians.

Originally Posted by gbeal

I'm with all the others, it is a stunner, you should be happy. I love my 10" newt for imaging as well, just don't tell everyone, the word will get out.

Thanks Gary,
Pretty happy..
Yep, like you I love this 10" newt I've put together/ built. But full credit really goes to the guys who make these amazing high precision mirrors available to us amateur astro folk.
Always loved my first Newt, and dreamed one day to get anothery...
But at that time, things were way too expensive for a top off the shelf job.
Now the gates are open for those who have a little bit of nouse with their hands........ thank goodness for these guys that make what we need!
Now I'm pretty much where I want to be, and I'm staying!
But as you said..... shshshshshsh
Cheers

Thanks all for your comments.
All the best
Rich