New Battery Technology

[DarkArts]

Not everything in batteries is Li-Ion or LiFePO. There are a range of new technologies under active development, some more advanced than others. Applications vary, from small portable to large grid-scale.

This technlogy (Sodium) looks promising and seems to be closest to market of new 'general purpose' (well, sort of) battery tech: Why the Biggest Battery Company is Betting Against Lithium

Also, Undecided is a fairly interesting channel and has less hype and bias than some of the others although, IMHO, it's not completely immune.

And see if you can count the puns ...

[lazjen (Chris)]

Sodium based batteries look like they have their place, even with their (current) lower energy density. They make the most sense in stationary storage solutions, and it looks like in more extreme temperature environments.

Like most things, there's going to be multiple solutions that will fit various needs. Flow based batteries, for example, will also have their place.

[Mosc_007 (Charles)]

The latest OPPO Find X8 Pro Phone from China is using a Silicon Carbon Battery. It has a 20% increase in capacity compared to Lithium Polymer. I havn't researched this tech though.

[Leo.G (Leo)]

From what I've read the sodium based does not have the energy density of the LiFePO 4 batteries.
It's funny, somewhere in the U.S.A. they did experiments on the best medium to heat with solar energy and after extensive testing found salt was not only cheap and plentiful it was also the best medium for holding the heat.


Battery technology does confuse me, how many years have they been around and we still revert to lead acid?
Seems like the lead acid was fit for it's purpose and development ceased to exist for 100 odd years. Now with the fight to go green we may finally get some new technologies to equal or surpass those old things. I often consider ultra capacitors in conjunction with a good battery for quick recharging. Honda/Toyota were working with CSIRO on battery/ultra capacitor automotive systems some years back, not sure what happened to it. Probably went the way of the quartz crystal storage medium shown on Towards 2000 (or beyond 2000, I forget) many years back, military use only me thinks.

Aldi have the good brand LiFePo4 100Ah batteries in stock right now, $449, far from cheap. I have a good battery box for astronomy but think I'll just save up for a Bluetti system eventually.

[DarkArts]

Originally Posted by Leo.G

From what I've read the sodium based does not have the energy density of the LiFePO 4 batteries.

The video covers that in detail. I'm not trying to be an advocate for any battery tech - there are many niches to be filled. Here's a primer on 11 new technologies (though I don't know how authoritative it is):

https://www.rankred.com/new-battery-technologies/

And battery tech in general has a bright future given growth on all fronts:

https://rmi.org/the-rise-of-batterie...-many-numbers/

... and we still revert to lead acid?

Just out of curiosity, who is the "we" that's reverting to lead acid?

[Leo.G (Leo)]

Originally Posted by DarkArts

The video covers that in detail. I'm not trying to be an advocate for any battery tech - there are many niches to be filled. Here's a primer on 11 new technologies (though I don't know how authoritative it is):

https://www.rankred.com/new-battery-technologies/

And battery tech in general has a bright future given growth on all fronts:

https://rmi.org/the-rise-of-batterie...-many-numbers/


Just out of curiosity, who is the "we" that's reverting to lead acid?

Sorry, the we was referring to industry more than anything.
Though I'm no longer involved with electric forklifts (and other industrial thingies from cranes to military vehicles (hydraulics was a major part of the service side of the company)) as I was for many years, electronics background (technician /parts).
I'm excited to see the technology finally advancing, there's no denying lead acid have been around for a LONG time, much like petrol.
Zero are now bringing electric motorbikes into Australia.
Personally I think lead acid, much like petrol just worked, was cheap and somewhat easy, now everyone is worried about the planet, finally, we only have one (thus far)....

Hopefully it's not too late.

I have read countless stories over the years about advanced study in various universities world wide but not really seen much finalised that hasn't disappeared from , I won't say mainstream media but my reading sources, maybe it's just I'm too dumb now, I claim that all of the time lately. Plus I do not follow technology like I did even just 10 years ago (now I've decided I'm old and dumb, lol).

Bottom line, it will be great to see new battery technology which can replace the old technology in both form and function. Nice if they can eventually get prices down too and yes, I do understand how that works.

My sons hearing aid batteries are zinc air but once opened (once exposed to the atmosphere the reaction starts). they don't last a great deal of time but they are very tiny too.

[astronobob (Bob)]

Not like other batteries , , I'll take it with a grain of salt , ,

[Mosc_007 (Charles)]

What is the safety like with a Sodium battery ?. If my memory from Science at School is reliable, Sodium is way more volatile that Lithium.

[sharkbite]

Originally Posted by Mosc_007

What is the safety like with a Sodium battery ?. If my memory from Science at School is reliable, Sodium is way more volatile that Lithium.

Details are easy to find on the internets....the batteries don't have pure sodium metal in them....they have a sodium alloy and sit in a solution that has sodium ions in it.

Nowhere near the boom potential of a stick of sodium metal...

[DarkArts]

Originally Posted by Mosc_007

What is the safety like with a Sodium battery ?. If my memory from Science at School is reliable, Sodium is way more volatile that Lithium.

Did you watch the video? The video explains safety, as well as operating temperature range, reasonably well, IMHO.

[DarkArts]

More developments: https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...22-p5ltdc.html

Specifically, on Na-Ion batteries:

CATL showed a video of its sodium-ion batteries undergoing stress tests, such as being punctured with a nail or power drill or even cut in half with a power saw, without catching fire or exploding.

[Leo.G (Leo)]

Originally Posted by DarkArts

More developments: https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...22-p5ltdc.html

Specifically, on Na-Ion batteries:

I sat with battery technicians and both helped and did it myself, soldering the straps between lead acid cells with a gas torch (oxy/acetylene torch) and nothing but a blanket over the cells.
This was replacing singular or multiple cells in electric forklift batteries because a whole new 48 volt battery was worth a fortune, replace dead cells only and every strap was soft soldered together.