2020 Make a change

[Peter Ward]

Today marks the beginning of 2020, plus neatly ties into the end of my first quarter of EV ownership.

This was heralded by my quarterly bill from Origin Energy (punctual, if nothing else) for the princely sum of $2.65. Seems the PV panels on our roof have managed to drive our EV for over 2700Km in the same period, plus power our house/pool/aircon. It struck me as a fairly reasonable figure....even though we exported about 120Kw back to the grid more than we consumed.

Rather than pay like a heroin addict to dealers like British Petroleum, Mobil, Royal Dutch Shell and Chevron for a weekly hit of automotive fuel, plus government coffers an obscene fuel excise and GST to burn fossil fuels and further bugger up the only planet we have, we now pay effectively nothing.
In Australia that's a rare decision (I have seen just one other Tesla model 3 in the Shire, and a hand full of S/Y variants). Only 1% or so of new vehicle sales are currently EV's. In Norway it is 60% and climbing. Norway’s 25% sales tax was removed from new EV purchases in 2001, and drivers were permitted to use bus lanes from 2005 and do not have to road pay toll fees. They actually want ICE powered vehicles off their roads as soon as possible. Fancy that. Really progressive and effective policy.

Australian EV buyers are offered zero incentives, still pay tolls, and have to pay about $7000 luxury car tax to support a car industry that no longer exists. It gets better, as the notion that EV drivers who do not pay fuel tax, should instead pay a road tax has already been floated. This duplicity and hypocrisy beggars belief.

My hope for 2020 is also that for the literally thousands of Aussies who have become de-facto refugees due the tragic bushfires over the last few days, that a few may ask: WTF?!

These fires had been modelled and predicted four decades earlier in a paper published in 1988 “Australian bushfire danger under changing climatic regimes” by Dr Thomas Beer (CSIRO). Yet the warnings went unheeded. Is this disconnect between Australians and what has proved to be excellent science, simply driven by ignorance or by greed? Perhaps both. In any event it was ignored by the likes of Fraser, Hawke, Keating, Howard, Rudd, Gillard, Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison. Oh...and the people who voted for them.

If the events of the summer of 2019/20 do not cause some to also actively pursue their local MP and Federal MP's and ask: why are you still approving coal mines? Why is there no thermal solar grid power? What are you doing to incentivise EV's? What will it take?

So...my NYE 2020 resolution is to get into the face of my MP's.

I am going to write to them. And really annoy them.

My hope is other IIS members might do so as well. Happy New Year!

[Wavytone]

Quite a few Tesla’s over my way Peter, in the upper north shore possibly more than Volvos or Jags.

Agree re the hypocrisy... might pursue that further with contacts in TfNSW.

[peter_4059 (Peter)]

While I agree with your sentiment, Peter I have two questions:
1. What powers your aircon at night?
2. How do you make jet fuel without making petrol?

Solve those and you might be on to something.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Sounds good Peter but the big picture is not as simple as that. Renewables, solar, wind are not pilotable. If they had to provide the supply on demand the only alternative we know is battery storage and then they're not that green anymore. Solar panels manufacturing relies on a lot of various alloys, metals, chemical processes so do EVs. So to some extent everything we use and all our service industry relies on coal for electricity and petrol for transport. We sure need to cut our emissions. But solar and wind are a minute part of the whole energy used. We stop coal or petrol, we might as well turn all the lights off and stop moving. And we don't make solar panels either or EVs.

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Yep - we've never had bushfires like this before - except that the 100 years trend for bushfires is down instead of up, and while the current ones are bad, we've had far worse.

You cite a predictive paper from 1988 as proof, when even climate alarmists like Professor Andy Pitman are reluctant to link bushfires to Climate Change in the manner catastrophists do.
https://www.climatescience.org.au/co...nsw-bush-fires

And, let's get lots more subsidies for solar panels and heaps more concessions and subsidies for electric cars, so that the poorest members of our society can pay for the elitist rich - so that the latter can virtue signal about how environmentally concious they are. The poorest pay the big power bills that subsidise the rich, but it's kind of hard for renters to afford to put up solar panels and take them with them when they have to switch houses.

As for your Norway example, despite the huge subsidies, as the Guardian article states, most electric cars are people's second car - not their primary car.
https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...es-fossil-fuel

So that the poor and poorer middle class people here would wind up subsidising rich people's $80,000 to $200,000 second car - given that the poorer are usually driving second hand $5000 to $20,000 cars - which is all they can afford to buy. I'm sure it would give them great pleasure to know their taxes are subsidizing all the Teslas in the richest suburbs.

Finally, you blame Fraser, Hawke, Keating, Howard, Rudd, Gillard, Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison for the current bushfire situation. If any of them had done the right thing by your logic and closed down ALL of Australia's fossil fuel power generation, what would have been the result of our grand sacrifice?

Answer - given that China alone typically adds as much coal-fired power in any three to eight month period as Australia's total capacity, result would be zilch. And with countries like India, Germany and Japan also furiously building new coal fired plants, the answer becomes double-zilch.

Regards,
Renato

[AndyG (Andy)]

@Peter Ward
That's nice Peter, we're all really happy for you, and wish you God speed in your effort to persuade the local Pollies.

May I add a few questions to Peter_4059's list?

1. Who is the 2nd biggest exporter of oil in Europe (after Russia)
2. How would this allow Norway (Woops, I just answered #1), in subsidising their glamourous decisions, whilst the rest of the world burns said oil anyway?
3. How can I, with a single income house, mortgage and 2 young children partake in this exciting EV adventure? (I'd love to btw, because I feel really dirty driving my 4L Falcon ute). Maybe I should just "Step up" (?).

My Pathology Professor friend bought a Model 3 some months ago. He kindly offered to lend it to me for a week. He's a very nice guy. Seeing as though I don't have the dough spare to pay the insurance excess (should the worst have happened), I declined the opportunity. Pity - I would have enjoyed pretending for a week at least.

On a lighter note, my new years' resolution is to spend more time with my kids. Hopefully include (enslave?) them in the multitude of DIY jobs our house needs to stay standing.

Happy New Year to all

[Retrograde (Pete)]

Originally Posted by Renato1

Yep - we've never had bushfires like this before - except that the 100 years trend for bushfires is down instead of up, and while the current ones are bad, we've had far worse.

Utter nonsense. We've never had bushfires this extensive and long-lasting. These bushfires started in winter and have affected almost every state. We also have much more effective fire-fighting tools than ever before - aerial bombardment etc but they're still unstoppable. Rainforests have dried out and burned!

Originally Posted by Renato1

And, let's get lots more subsidies for solar panels and heaps more concessions and subsidies for electric cars, so that the poorest members of our society can pay for the elitist rich - so that the latter can virtue signal about how environmentally concious they are.

Rhetorical dribble.
Renewable power is set to drive the cost of electricity down and we'd likely already be there if it wan't for pollies working on behalf of fossil-fuel interests.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/australi...newable-energy

I'm certainly not claiming that renewable energy is some sort of magic bullet but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Renato1

by your logic and closed down ALL of Australia's fossil fuel power generation, what would have been the result of our grand sacrifice?

Dishonest absolutism. If we had a government that took the issue seriously we could've been well on the way to a planned transition by now.

Originally Posted by Renato1

given that China alone typically adds as much coal-fired power in any three to eight month period as Australia's total capacity, result would be zilch. And with countries like India, Germany and Japan also furiously building new coal fired plants, the answer becomes double-zilch.

This is simply wrong.
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...on-tonnes-2019

Germany is not furiously building new coal plants. They plan to phase out all coal by 2038 and are investing big in renewables.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...-idUSKCN1PK04L

If countries like ours did their share & didn't sabotage global agreements then the likes of China and India might make more of an effort too.

Climate change deniers have been wrong non-stop for a decade now and are just adding noise to the debate - not facts.

No doubt this thread will be locked very soon

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by peter_4059

While I agree with your sentiment, Peter I have two questions:
1. What powers your aircon at night?
2. How do you make jet fuel without making petrol?

Solve those and you might be on to something.

We have a Tesla II Powerwall. It runs the A/C just fine overnight.

In the 1970's during the first "Oil shock" the likes of Lockheed had plans for liquid hydrogen fueled engines. The low fuel density meant cryogenic tanks in the fuselage, but it was feasible. one and sundry decided it was doable when the globe ran out of oil .
Cost was the only real issue.
Not much has changed.

[Nikolas (Nik)]

I can see this thread being closed in a few hours the way it is going

[Lucinda (Lucinda)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Oh...and the people who voted for them.

Peter,
I seem to recall (back in 2013) you signalling your intent to vote for the guy who platformed on repealing the carbon tax (Tony Abbot)?

[DarkArts]

On many forums and social media discussion groups (not mentioning any names), you will find politically-motivated "spruikers" regurgitating their standard talking points, sometimes with a little embellishment for colour. I have often wondered whether they do it out of ideological fervour or just for the money ... I suppose I will never know. The most common sort are climate change deniers and fossil-fuel advocates.

The science doesn't lie, but people do.

PS: This is my first and last post in this thread.

[Peter Ward]

@ Retrograde (Pete)

Thanks. On the money and saved me responding to Renato.

BTW on the bushfire issue, my family has a couple of active RFS members.

Older hands at our local brigade, not to mention retired RFS State heads
who were wanting a summit with Morrison, all say it's never been this bad....

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Lucinda

Peter,
I seem to recall (back in 2013) you signalling your intent to vote for the guy who platformed on repealing the carbon tax (Tony Abbot)?

Ah...you missed the irony. I think I listed all Oz PM's since the 80's. My
point being both sides are beholden to Coal/fossil fuel industries...and the national Australian pastime of apathy has let the political class do SFA about emissions for too long.

My hope is recent events will be the catalyst for real change...as so far nothing is happening

https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/Oan...house-gas-data

[Oddity (Andrew)]

Not entirely true; three major-party leaders on both sides of the isle attempted to do something about emissions (Rudd, Turnbull and Gillard); unfortunately all were quickly knived for their efforts by party powerbrokers because it wasn't the populist choice.

[Oddity (Andrew)]

Not entirely true; three major-party leaders on both sides of the isle attempted to do something about emissions (Rudd, Turnbull and Gillard); unfortunately all were quickly knived for their efforts by party powerbrokers because it wasn't the populist choice.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Oddity

Not entirely true; three major-party leaders on both sides of the isle attempted to do something about emissions (Rudd, Turnbull and Gillard); unfortunately all were quickly knived for their efforts by party powerbrokers because it wasn't the populist choice.

Moot point. Either side has done nothing.

In 2017-18, fossil fuel companies donated $1,277,933 to the ALP, Liberal and National parties. This was up 32% from $968,343 in 2016-17 ($1.03 million in 2015-16). Yet given Australia’s political party's penchant for "paper bags" stuffed with cash and pathetic political donation disclosure rules, the true figure could be an order of magnitude higher.

I wondered: did these donations have an effect? If you consider: tax-based subsidies, direct contributions, concessional loans from the public purse to fossil fuel producers and in pathetic environmental laws, the answer was a resounding yes!

Schmoozing of the Australia political class, according to Origin Energy's CEO Gordon Cairns, at their political functions is "money well spent".

[Oddity (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Moot point. Either side has done nothing

Again not true. The ETS was not "nothing".

I am going to reiterate my previous post into list 3 historical facts:
1) Only one party has implemented a major action (ETS) and were voted out because of it.
2) One party was elected when their leader at the time had a clear repeal-ETS platform.
3) That same party was reelected despite the fact their present-day leader once carried a lump of coal into parliament, while the other party in this year's May election had a significant election platform based on clear action.

Without getting into who voted for who, to state that both parties are equal in their inaction is plainly untrue.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Oddity

Again not true. The ETS was not "nothing".

I am going to reiterate my previous post into list 3 historical facts:
1) Only one party has implemented a major action (ETS) and were voted out because of it.
2) One party was elected when their leader at the time had a clear repeal-ETS platform.
3) That same party was reelected despite the fact their present-day leader once carried a lump of coal into parliament, while the other party in this year's May election had a complete electionplatform based on clear action.

Without getting into who voted for who, to state that both parties are equal in their inaction is plainly untrue.

I love the way people try to say "ah they're all the same" or "Both sides of politics are to blame" etc But on several issues, particularly this one, that is just embarrassing Bollocks, usually uttered by people who are worried about this, worsening issue, but are subtly ashamed of how they generally vote....it's called a politicised issue and it makes them feel less culpable.

Mike

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Oddity

Again not true. The ETS was not "nothing".

.....

A look at the Cape Grim (aptly named) and Mauna Loa data shows global emissions are rising.

So explain to me again how you see Cap and Trade schemes as effective?

Despite much government posturing about on-again, off-again 1.5 billion dollar "Clean Energy Flagship" programs, they only appear to have kept rooms-full of Australian bureaucrats employed.

Australia has but one thermal solar power station. A 9.3 MW facility that has been added to the Liddell coal-fired power plant in NSW. Here is the kicker....it is used to pre-heat feedwater for the coal-fired power station.

Rather like humping (I had to clean that up) for virginity.

[Lucinda (Lucinda)]

Originally Posted by Oddity

1) Only one party has implemented a major action (ETS) and were voted out because of it.

Not just the ETS.
Another big factor was the NBN which, had it been properly implemented would have had a serious impact on Murdoch's satellite subscription service.
The coalition undertook to sabotage it.
So Rupert undermined the government of the day using any means at his disposal. ie) Manipulating public opinion in order to influence behavior at the ballot box.