The Ashes

matt · #1 03-01-2007, 02:08 PM

With Australia's great victory in the Ashes the debate has sprung up (inevitably ... again) over whether the victor should retain the actual Ashes urn?

I see Sir Richard Branson and even Ian Botham are championing this cause.

I thought it would be interesting to conduct a straight yes/no poll.

Nothing grey... just should the winner keep the urn in their country until such time as the opposition (England or Australia) wins it back?

iceman (Mike) · #2 03-01-2007, 02:10 PM

Yes, for sure!

Good match today too.. great bowling by the quicks. Shame Langer got out so early, he was scoring quickly.

33South (Chris) · #3 03-01-2007, 02:13 PM

No - tradition should take precedence.

iceman (Mike) · #4 03-01-2007, 02:23 PM

^^ from a Pom

[1ponders] (Paul) · #5 03-01-2007, 03:10 PM

Yes ,definately.

Astroman (Andrew Wall) · #6 03-01-2007, 03:26 PM

I couldnt give a rats dirty behind, but for the record, I think whoever won the ashes should retain the ashes, its really the only way to do it.

Striker (Tony) · #7 03-01-2007, 03:28 PM

Thats probably why the poms never win because they get the URN anyway.

Take it off them and their may be some real passion to get it back.

BTW Australia wins series 5-0 just letting you know if some of you were worried about hayden's wicket before tea...lol

matt · #8 03-01-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astroman

I couldnt give a rats dirty behind, but for the record, I think whoever won the ashes should retain the ashes, its really the only way to do it.

Big of you to even bother, then, Andrew!

Omaroo (Chris Malikoff) · #9 03-01-2007, 03:38 PM

How can England "lose" the Ashes if they never really "lose" the Ashes?

You win 'em, I reckon you keep 'em!

Ric · #10 03-01-2007, 05:22 PM

Good poll Matt,
A simple solution would be to encase the actual urn resin or something similar and put a gold frame around it and it would be tough as nails, nice and fancy and the problem would be solved. Chris is right "how can you lose the ashes if you don't lose them"
Tony is right as well, there is no incentive if you still get to take them home after losing.
It's a bit like the America's cup except they cant change the rules.

Cheers

matt · #11 03-01-2007, 05:35 PM

Thanks Ric

I really wasn't factoring in the fragility of the urn itself and really don't want that to be a factor in people's decision making, although I understand what you're saying

Just a simple yes or no, based on the basic premise outlined in the original post.

Cheers

styleman333 · #12 03-01-2007, 06:55 PM

Yes definetly the country which has the ashes should keep the ashes in their country .

A Big Big Yes !

Rodstar (Rod) · #13 03-01-2007, 06:57 PM

The Ashes were a gift to an individual English cricketer, who donated them to a private cricket club. They are not public property, nor are they the property of either the Australian or English Cricket Boards. Any debate about them being "returned" to Australia is, from a legal perspective, hot air I am afraid.

matt · #14 03-01-2007, 07:12 PM

The good news, Rod, is no-one in this thread has so far used the term "returned"...

So, we're not conducting the poll from that erraneous standpoint

Now... have some fun and get votin' ... legal boy!!!!!!!!!

Fun,folks. That's what this simple little poll is meant to be

Rodstar (Rod) · #15 03-01-2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt

The good news, Rod, is no-one in this thread has so far used the term "returned"...

So, we're not conducting the poll from that erraneous standpoint

Now... have some fun and get votin' ... legal boy!!!!!!!!!

Fun,folks. That's what this simple little poll is meant to be

I was trying to be gentle on you Matt. The poll is unfortunately non-sensical in that it talks about the Ashes being "retained". As England won the previous series, the winner (Australia) cannot "retain" the Ashes on any analysis. At best, the Ashes can be "returned".

As indicated previously, the gifting of the Ashes to the ACB is the sole province of the MCC, and it is not something that anyone else has the ability to decide upon.

Doing the best I can with the survey, I have voted "No".

matt · #16 03-01-2007, 07:40 PM

By retained... I simply mean the Ashes remain in the keeping of the winner until they are won (or not) by the opposing side, whether that be Australia or England.

"retained" in the sense of that nation "holding" on to them until the outcome of the next series.

Rod... I am aware of the history of the Ashes. Thanks, anyway, for the history lesson. "Non-sensical" ? Lighten up, dude. Everyone else seems to be getting the gist of the question being asked and participated in the spirit in which it was intended.

Boy... way to go killing the mood

Pedantics!!!!!!!!!! If it was a debate over who should have the final decision... the ACB... MCC...ABBA or INXS.... I guess I would have included it in the poll or started a new one.

Thanks for voting in my flawed poll

matt · #17 03-01-2007, 08:10 PM

Let's keep those votes rollin' in, eh?

Remember. It's just asking whether you think the winning nation gets to play home to the Ashes until it loses them... notwithstanding the reality of who actually owns them etc etc

Many thanks

Ric · #18 04-01-2007, 01:37 AM

Hi Matt,

Yes it is.

Cheers

Rodstar (Rod) · #19 04-01-2007, 09:05 AM

According to news reports this morning, the MCC has confirmed that they will not be changing their position.....the Ashes urn is staying in England.

I understand Allan Border, who is an MCC member, along with Sir Richard Branson (not sure if he is a member or not), were agitating for the MCC to hold an extraordinary meeting of members to put it the the vote. It would seem the MCC Board did not agree with that approach.

I guess the poms will not win another series against Australia again for many years to come......so if the MCC wants to hold on to their tiny sentimental urn, best wishes to them!!!

Dujon · #20 04-01-2007, 11:25 AM

No.

I think The Ashes have a life of their own. The fact that the physical object known as The Ashes reside at the Oval, Lords, Edgbaston, the MCG or SCG or elsewhere means nothing.

Over the years the mythical aspects of the term have acquired a particlar mystique. In some ways I'd prefer the original urn to be lost/destroyed in some unfortunate circumstance; then we'd play for the real Ashes.

The real Ashes have always resided in the minds and souls of cricketers and their followers in both countries. The urn itself is just a relic. Let it rest in peace and quiet in the museum.