help with "go to"

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Hello,
I am in search of some help.
Bare with me while I share the equipment I am using. 8" Orion reflector on an EQ mount. I use the Orion G-3 color camera and until very recently I have used Orion Tru Track for tracking. I have gotten lucky a few times and have captured a few good pics. of deep space objects.
Now for my problem. I've upgraded to the go to system hoping to locate objects more quickly. I have NEVER understood how to get a perfect polar alignment and after 3 tries so far with the "go to" I am failing miserably. I'm not sure exactly what I am doing wrong. My latitude and longitude are correct. My altitude is 627 not sure if it should be + or - and the polar hh.mm escapes me.
......frustrated....
Thanks

[StuTodd]

Hey Mark and welcome!

How do you set the scope up? You may need to set your setting circles and home position of the mount. Google is your friend..

If your time/location etc are all ok then try something like Alignmaster - www.alignmaster.de/ which is simple to use and gives great results, free for 30 days too.

I had problems with setting alignment and it was just the RA setting circle (I'd used the wrong scale for southern hemisphere). You use the bottom one in the US of A.
Hope this helps?

Stu

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Hello Stu,
Thanks for the reply.
Honestly, I have given up on the setting circles based on reading how inaccurate they can be.
My set up goes as follows: The forward leg is dead north. I've accomplished this with a compass and some builders line (string). Polaris appears in my FOV then I adjust RA and DEC until it is dead center.
Mark

[peter_4059 (Peter)]

Hi Mark. If you are referring to polar alignment using Polaris then you should be adjusting altitude and azimuth to make Polaris dead centre not RA and Dec.

Peter.

[StuTodd]

Originally Posted by Markus1416

Hello Stu,
Thanks for the reply.
Honestly, I have given up on the setting circles based on reading how inaccurate they can be.
My set up goes as follows: The forward leg is dead north. I've accomplished this with a compass and some builders line (string). Polaris appears in my FOV then I adjust RA and DEC until it is dead center.
Mark

The NCP is about a degree away from Polaris. Does your EQ have a polar scope in the plastic dome?
I always had success with the synscan after setting the scope up in the "home" position, scope up, weights down, with the setting circles correctly set up. I once used the incorrect scale on the RA axis and the scope wouldn't point correctly.. It is worth taking the time to set the home position correctly Mark and its simple too!

Also as noted above, use the Alt-Az bolts to align your scope to the NCP, not the RA and dec axes..

For our benefit, what EQ mount are you using, are you even on Synscan controller or EQMOD and do you set up each night from scratch (i.e you don't leave your stuff set up permanently?)

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Stu,
I am using an Orion Skyview pro mount. Synscan V 4 go to.
My fwd. leg marked north is dead north with the counterweight shaft aligned with the north facing leg. The scope is aligned above (i believe).
I believe i mis-spoke about moving to Polaris to align. I am NOT using the clutches to move the scope. I do have a polar alignment scope as well, but it's set up and use escape me.
I will look into the setting circles further. What bothers me about them is they are adjustable.....therefore in my mind even if I am perfectly polar aligned I can adjust the circles to "say" anything. Having said that, the scope should still be aligned correctly because the circles do not physically move anything on the mount.
I know the solution is staring me right in the face....Thanks again for your advice and patience...I move my scope so it does not have a permanent spot.

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Thanks Peter,
I mis-spoke I am using the Alt/Az...to adjust the mount. It appears that perhaps the setting circles may be the source of my difficulty (refer to my reply to Stu) As I attempt to set up the "go to" I have no problem with longitude, latitude or elevation which is 627 which I punch in as +627...however a polaris screen then appears with HH.MM which I can't seem to change.
Thanks

[peter_4059 (Peter)]

If you have a goto mount I'm not sure why you need setting circles. Just polar align then do a 2 star alignment routine in synscan.

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Stu, Peter,
Finally a day off with clear skies...moon last quarter about %53 illuminated. Taking into account all advice I started "home" dead north based on the fwd. leg. Finder scope and main scope in sync. Polaris appears in my backyard around 19.15. Using the alt.,az., adjustments and physically moving the mount I was able to attain a fair alignment with Polaris. Did a 2 star alignment, adjusted accordingly and was able to locate M-31. The go-to did not point directly at M-31 but I was able to find it with some corrections. Tracking was fair but drifted to the south east in time. My scope is a reflector.
The setting circles seem to serve no purpose with the go-to. The drift confuses me as of now, but I'm getting closer.

[raymo]

Aligning on Polaris will not give a high standard of precision, as it is too far from the pole, but is good enough for casual visual purposes, an occasional
touch of a button being required in order to keep the object centred. It is not
worth the bother of using more accurate methods for visual work only.
If, for whatever reason, such as imaging, you need more accuracy, the
drift alignment method called D.A.R.V. is quicker and easier than
conventional drift aligning.[Google it[.
The only purpose that setting circles serve on a GoTo mount, is to aid in
locating an object with known R.A. and Dec. that is not in the mount's
database.
raymo

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Thank you Raymo,
Well, with all the appreciated advice from all of you I've managed a good polar alignment. I believe I can photograph DSO's for up to about 2 hours without much if any drift. Having said that, in the past I have managed to capture some pretty good pics. none more than 15-20 minutes.
I suspect that my recent pics. of Andromeda and the Ring nebula contain inside them better pics. than I have been able to process.
.....this brings me to my next question...software, software, software. I am using an Orion G-3 color camera. Light files only. (raw) I have Deep sky Stacker which fails often along with the Orion Processing software. I do not have Photoshop but I do have Gimp.
I'll attempt to attach a pic. or two that I got lucky on.

[raymo]

I don't know why DSS is failing often for you, I've never had a problem with it.
You can avoid paying out huge chunks of money by getting PS and Lightroom
with ongoing updates for $10.99 per month. You can unsubscribe whenever
you like; good value.
raymo

P.S. Don't forget to align your mount on true South, not magnetic South.

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

DSS continues to just shut down. Exact error escapes me right now. I suspect that it has something to do with the G-3 I'm using which does not show up in the camera list. The G-3 requires CMYG which is not an option.
Further, DSS never seems to recognize the minimum 8 stars required. Next time out (if the rain ever stops) I intend on taking shorter exposures for a longer period of time.
I know PS can do many amazing things, but I can't justify a monthly payment for now until I can get the pre-processing correct.(alignment, stacking etc.)
...one last thing, the true south alignment for the mount escapes me. For now I'll use my polar scope and be satisfied with a 2 hour block of good tracking.
thanks

[raymo]

If you are using the mount's polar scope as it is meant to be used you don;t
have to worry about aligning on true North. [Sorry I said South; forgot you
were in Northern hemisphere].
I just downloaded DSS years ago and started using it; didn't realise that
it doesn't recognise all cameras. You could try Autostakaert which is a free
download.
raymo

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by raymo

Aligning on Polaris will not give a high standard of precision, as it is too far from the pole, but is good enough for casual visual purposes, an occasional
touch of a button being required in order to keep the object centred. It is not
worth the bother of using more accurate methods for visual work only.
If, for whatever reason, such as imaging, you need more accuracy, the
drift alignment method called D.A.R.V. is quicker and easier than
conventional drift aligning.[Google it[.
The only purpose that setting circles serve on a GoTo mount, is to aid in
locating an object with known R.A. and Dec. that is not in the mount's
database.
raymo

Hi,
Hope no one minds me butting in, I'm trying to learn as well. I looked up DARV method and the article I read said to start off pointing to south - was for northern hemisphere people? If so, would I simply do the opposite in the Southern Hemisphere and point north to begin? Also, this would be true north I take it?

Thanks
Mick

[raymo]

Hi Mick, As you are in Sydney, you will set up your rig as normal, with
the leg below the counterweights pointing due South [NOT magnetic South].
Point the scope to 0 degrees Dec and find a suitable moderately bright
star as close to where the scope is pointing as possible. When you have
obtained a straight line on your camera's LCD screen by following the
DARV instructions, point your scope low on the horizon East or West and
follow the instructions to get a straight line with whatever star you have chosen. Make all adjustments with the alt and az adjusters, not the motor
controls. Takes a while the first time, but after you've got it down pat
you can get accurate P.A. in a few minutes. Use shorter exposures at
first to see if the P.A. is way out. As the P.A. improves use longer
exposures as when P.A. is very close deviation will take longer to show up.
raymo

[mikeyjames (Mick)]

Originally Posted by raymo

Hi Mick, As you are in Sydney, you will set up your rig as normal, with
the leg below the counterweights pointing due South [NOT magnetic South].
Point the scope to 0 degrees Dec and find a suitable moderately bright
star as close to where the scope is pointing as possible. When you have
obtained a straight line on your camera's LCD screen by following the
DARV instructions, point your scope low on the horizon East or West and
follow the instructions to get a straight line with whatever star you have chosen. Make all adjustments with the alt and az adjusters, not the motor
controls. Takes a while the first time, but after you've got it down pat
you can get accurate P.A. in a few minutes. Use shorter exposures at
first to see if the P.A. is way out. As the P.A. improves use longer
exposures as when P.A. is very close deviation will take longer to show up.
raymo

Hi Raymo
Appreciate that, thanks.

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Hello Mick,
I think you'll find these guys helpful and patient.

[Markus1416 (Mark)]

Well it appears I have some new "homework". I will look into DARV and autostakaert.....Thanks again guys!!!
.....I still wonder if my G-3 color is part of the problem.