Newbie with eye piece questions

Beatlejohn · #1 02-08-2016, 04:44 PM

Hi im new here and have just bought a skywatcher 6" dob... it came with 2 eye pieces..25mm and 10mm. I bought a 2x barlow lens also.
Tested it out last night and i got a good eye full of stars... i have to say i wasnt blown away with any detail or anything. Are the eye pieces that come with these a decent quality or can i do better? Looking for recommendations on what eye pieces to buy. Would a zoom piece be the best value right now to try out or should i get a couple of single pieces? Id like to be able to see some planet detail and the moon. Last night seemed clear to me but maybe it wasnt the best night for it like i said im new to all this.
Any help would be great.

thegableguy (Chris) · #2 02-08-2016, 05:07 PM

I'd suggest trying it again on a clear night or two before deciding you're not impressed. The eyepieces a SW Dob comes with are fine; you can get more expensive ones but you're unlikely to see much difference with a 6".

In any case you should be able to easily see the bands of Jupiter & the Galilean moons,as well as the Cassini division on Saturn, using your 10mm eyepiece and the Barlow.

I started with an 8" Dob and absolutely loved it; give it a chance and you'll love yours too.

sharptrack2 (Kevin) · #3 02-08-2016, 05:16 PM

Hi BeatleJohn,

Welcome to IIS. You'll find lots of info and advice here.

Typically the eyepieces supplied with new telescopes are of average quality. Suitable for the moon and seeing some planets. If you are after details, you will need to spend a bit of money. You can get some decent Plossls for less than $100. With your telescope, I wouldn't go for gold just yet. Your ability to see a tremendous amount of detail will be limited simply by the 6" aperture, but a good Plossl will clearly show the rings of Saturn, GRS of Jupiter on a good night of seeing. If you're limited on budget, a zoom eyepiece is a good interim choice, but I think you'll find most purists here opt for individual eyepieces to get the extra quality factor.

I strongly suggest you read the "sticky" threads spread across the site. They are a wealth of information. You'll get a feel for what you can see with your specific telescope. Suburban observing will not let you see the kinds of detail the magazines and TV show. I count myself lucky if I even get a hint of colour when looking at the planets and bigger nebulae and I have an 8" telescope.

But don't get too disappointed, there are so many things to see and the challenge of finding targets, teasing out detail, just watching the night sky change, can be quite rewarding.

Above all ask questions, the group here is very active and love to share.

Beatlejohn · #4 02-08-2016, 05:46 PM

Hi everyone thanks for the replies and info... so i should be able to see a little bit of detail with the supplied eye pieces? I just couldnt seem to get much happening last night... the stars looked nice and bright and i live in a street lit area also so that might not help. But even with the 10mm and the barlow it just didnt seem to get me anywhere.
So i should persist and hold off on buying any eye pieces?

Ghen (Ed) · #5 02-08-2016, 06:07 PM

Half the battle is knowing where to look in the first place.
Get a copy of Turn Left at Orion, really good introduction as to what to look at when you are starting out.

Also an app like stellarium for your phone or tablet can be really handy for finding your way around the sky

Cheers

gaseous (Patrick) · #6 02-08-2016, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatlejohn

Hi im new here and have just bought a skywatcher 6" dob... it came with 2 eye pieces..25mm and 10mm. I bought a 2x barlow lens also.
Tested it out last night and i got a good eye full of stars... i have to say i wasnt blown away with any detail or anything. Are the eye pieces that come with these a decent quality or can i do better? Looking for recommendations on what eye pieces to buy. Would a zoom piece be the best value right now to try out or should i get a couple of single pieces? Id like to be able to see some planet detail and the moon. Last night seemed clear to me but maybe it wasnt the best night for it like i said im new to all this.
Any help would be great.

Hi Beatlejohn,
Those eyepieces are OK, but if they were exceptional quality they probably wouldn't be including them with a new scope.
I'm a lazy sod when it comes to constantly changing eyepieces, so I invested in a Baader MkIII 8-24 zoom, and it's a cracker. It's not really cheap ($350+), but at the same time it's not in the same price range as an individual top of the line Nagler ($800+ and an internal organ of your choice). A good quality zoom in my experience is visually better and much more user friendly than the individual SW eyepieces that come with the scope (I've still got the same ones myself), but it'll come down to your budget and what you want to see, and I haven't tried or read reviews on any of the other zoom eyepieces around. In decent dark site conditions your current eyepieces should be able to pick up some reasonable planetary detail, excellent views of the moon, and potentially some nice open/globular clusters. If you want to get into nebulae then you'll probably want a narrow band filter at some point, but as has been mentioned, a 6" scope is possibly going to be a bit limiting for these and other faint objects. Get yourself to a good dark site with no moon - the visual difference between this and your suburban backyard will astound you, so don't give up on your current EPs just yet! Also, I've found a barlow with, say, a 10mm eyepiece will produce a less clear image than a 5mm eyepiece on its own, despite producing the same magnification. This might just be due to me having KFC fingerprints all over my barlow though. Good luck!

doppler (Rick) · #7 02-08-2016, 06:21 PM

Use the 25mm for stars and nebula and keep the 10mm and barlow for the moon and planets. Jupiter is the bright star 45 deg up from the western horizon after sunset and will be a treat with the 10mm eyepiece.

thegableguy (Chris) · #8 02-08-2016, 06:31 PM

What worked for me was replacing the included finderscope with a red dot finder. Vastly easier! Cost around $60-70, worth every cent. Team that up with Google Skymap or Stellarium (free apps) and there's no end to the stuff you can see.

If light pollution is a big issue where you are, new eyepieces won't help much. More than that, any eyepieces that show a significant improvement over yours will likely cost more than your entire telescope. Learn how to use what you have, enjoy it as much as possible... and start saving up for the inevitable upgrade!

Beatlejohn · #9 02-08-2016, 07:46 PM

Hi guys thanks again for all the info... I do like the idea of having a zoom piece so that i wont have to change out eye pieces but i guess thats not a huge drama.
I received an email from an online retailer and they actually told me....

"A Barlow is usable on a refractor, it will not have capability in a 1200mm Dob, it suits a refractor only. This selection was not a good choice and whomever gave you guidance to get this unit gave you very unsound advice."

So is that true... u all mention barlows so im assuming they will work in my dob right?

thegableguy (Chris) · #10 02-08-2016, 07:52 PM

No. That's not at all true. I've got two Barlows that worked perfectly with my 8" Dob and still work perfectly with my ED80 refractor.

Sounds like a retailer to avoid. Mind telling us who said that?

Allan_L (Allan) · #11 03-08-2016, 08:32 AM

Hi BeatleJohn,

Skywatcher plossls that come with these scopes are reasonable quality.

More expensive eyepieces can give you better contrast, a bigger field of view, or the ability to zoom. But these can cost a lot as mentioned.

The best advice to anyone starting out is to get yourself along to an observing session. Some are mentioned in the Star Parties Forum. Many of these are free to attend and participate in. And regulars are keen to share their knowledge and advice. You may also be able to try some premium eyepieces in your scope to see what works for you. Where are you located? Your profile does not give anything away.

Generally, planetary objects worthy of your attention for seeing detail are limited to the moon (best when less than 50% illuminated), and of course Saturn and Jupiter.
Mars is showing a bit of detail at the moment, but it can be difficult even with much more expensive equipment, and often does not provide much joy. Venus shows no detail due to its cloud content. Other planets, will give you a warm fuzzy feeling inside just for finding them, but will have no more detail than a very small dot in your scope.
Increasing magnification does not always increase viewing pleasure either.
You really need good atmospheric conditions to pump up the magnification much above 150x with most setups. And your 10mm plossl will be delivering 120x magnification (if I got your scopes specs right 1200 fl).
Above that, it may be difficult to get a sharp image, although technically, your scope is capable of 306x magnification, atmospherics will rarely allow this to be a pleasant experience. [And a standard 4mm plossl will be like trying to look through a straw]

Anyway, after you get you fill of planets, you will want to move on to Deep Sky Objects (DSO's) and then you will be heading the other way, to get smaller magnifications and bigger Field of Views. This is where the premium eyepieces come into their own, with better contrast, and larger field of view.

A lot to take in I know. We all start off pretty much the same, and I for one am thankful of all the help I got at our local observing sessions, and equipment I got to sample there. [We meet at Mangrove Mountain just north of Sydney]

Anyway, keep at it, ask questions, and enjoy the wonders of our beautiful southern skies (assuming you are southern hemisphere located ? )

dimithri86 (Dimithri) · #12 03-08-2016, 08:51 AM

Before spending any more money you should be aware of what to expect. I have a 10inch dob, and even with expensive pieces what I see is no where near the pictures I have seen. So part of me enjoying visual observing was coming to terms with what I would be able to see, most things are at most a smudge, and the details you can see on planets are limited (however the rings of Saturn always blow my mind, even on a 3inch with the eyepieces that came with the scope). That said I love finding the smudges and crossing them off my list, and sitting there for a long time, sussing out as much detail as I can.

Another large contributor is observer skill. You need to train your eyes by practising. You will see more detail.

As said above best thing is to have a look through other peoples scopes. Why don’t you tell us where you are located, Im sure plenty of people here would be happy to show you around.

iborg (Philip) · #13 03-08-2016, 09:36 AM

Hi

Just to emphasise about training the eye, a few weeks ago I had a lucky clear night, with (I think) brilliant seeing.

I was looking at Mars, and over about 20min, my eye was able to start picking out different things from what seemed at first to be just a grey splodge for the upper disk and a whitish splodge for the lower third.

The white area turned into a polar cap and I could see a large triangulish grey shape with reddish markings left and right. I wondered, am I just imagining the change? And so imagining the shapes I was now seeing, like Lowell (?) and his canals!

But, a few days later someone posted a shot (see the link) that was very much what I saw, Ah ha - it was real!!

Anyway enjoy your scope and bear in mind that the stars are just dots to us stuck down here.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...highlight=mars

Philip

PS Thank you Markus for the shot, it gave me a great deal of satisfaction to know that what I thought I had seen was real.

Beatlejohn · #14 03-08-2016, 10:41 AM

Thanks for the new replies...
Im in Taree NSW... and its pouring down rain so there will be no scoping for a while lol.

Well i guess i'll stick with what i have for now though i do like the sound of that zoom EP im really tempted just to grab one of those but i also might buy a right angle finderscope.. the straight through one is just kinda awkward to get at.

I have a question about my barlow lens.. its a ProStar 2X Shorty Barlow Lens... does shorty have any difference to a regular barlow?

Thanks everyone for the great advice u seem like a great bunch of people.

StuTodd · #15 03-08-2016, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatlejohn

Hi everyone thanks for the replies and info... so i should be able to see a little bit of detail with the supplied eye pieces? I just couldnt seem to get much happening last night... the stars looked nice and bright and i live in a street lit area also so that might not help. But even with the 10mm and the barlow it just didnt seem to get me anywhere.
So i should persist and hold off on buying any eye pieces?

Hi Beatlejohn.

Stick with it.
I've read your posts, are you just looking at stars? Your posts would suggest that.

If so, you can't see the disks of stars as they are so very far away so all you are seeing through your scope are points of light representing the location of the star. This is affected by the 'seeing' and 'transparency'of the atmosphere on the night.

Point your scope at a nebula, galaxy or cluster and then see your views become interesting!

Good luck,
Stu

Beatlejohn · #16 03-08-2016, 12:16 PM

So ive just decided to buy the zoom EP i was looking at... yes it might be overkill for my current skills but i just liked the idea of having it all on one piece... if it doesnt work out im sure i could easily sell it.

So i have sky guide on my iphone.. would u all recommend some nebula to check out.. something relatively easy to get a good view at? Or is there a better app i should be using?
Sorry for all the dumb questions but i really appreciate everyones help

iborg (Philip) · #17 03-08-2016, 12:31 PM

Hi

I like looking at the Jewel Box, not a nebula, but, a very nice cluster of stars.

Near the Southern Cross, NGC 4755

http://oneminuteastronomer.com/848/jewel-box-cluster/

Philip

Allan_L (Allan) · #18 03-08-2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beatlejohn

So ive just decided to buy the zoom EP i was looking at... yes it might be overkill for my current skills but i just liked the idea of having it all on one piece... if it doesnt work out im sure i could easily sell it.

So i have sky guide on my iphone.. would u all recommend some nebula to check out.. something relatively easy to get a good view at? Or is there a better app i should be using?
Sorry for all the dumb questions but i really appreciate everyones help

Stellarium

Google Sky

Tonightssky.com

DSO-Browser.com

No question is a dumb question.
We all had to start from scratch.
The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.

thegableguy (Chris) · #19 03-08-2016, 02:17 PM

One last push for the red dot finder. I hated using my finderscopes, both straight through and right angle. Straight through is often difficult to actually see through, depending on what angle your target is; the mirror-reversed right angle just made things confusing for me (though many people seem to adjust fine - I'm likely just a bit of a spaz). Red dot finder was vastly better than both. Vastly!

croweater (Richard) · #20 03-08-2016, 02:26 PM

+1 for a red dot finder. A telrad was one of the best things I've ever bought for astro and when I did buy one I wished I'd bought it sooner. So much easier and a lot of times you won't even need your finder. After centring in your red dot finder the object often is visible with a low power eyepiece in your main scope. For a beginner it's a massive gain for very small outlay. Cheers Richard.