The Many Faced Swan

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

I finished gathering LRGB data for my Swan so I decided to process 3 more versions (in addition to the original NB SHO version) out of interest and to see which palette I preferred. All were processed as consistently as possible to see the relative effect of adding Ha and OIII to LRGB.

Unfortunately, I didn't catch a break with the seeing conditions with averages hovering between 2.7 and 3.6 arcsec/pix (before decon) for all filters ... pretty bad for an image scale of only 0.59 arcsec/pix!!

I think my favourites are the Hubble palette NB and the HaOIII enhanced RGB version.

Full res versions as usual:
Standard LRGB - the familiar "true colour" rendition:
http://www.pbase.com/gailmarc/image/163605153/original

LHaRGB - the Ha enhanced RGB rendition
http://www.pbase.com/gailmarc/image/163605154/original

LHaOIIIRGB - the Ha and OIII enhanced RGB version
http://www.pbase.com/gailmarc/image/163605156/original

SIIHaOIII (SHO palette) version (very slight reprocess from the original posting):
http://www.pbase.com/gailmarc/image/161139215/original

Cheers, Marcus

[RickS (Rick)]

An interesting comparison, Marcus. My favourite is the LHaOIIIRGB. I don't like the look of the Hubble palette much on this object. Not sure why?

Cheers,
Rick.

[gregbradley]

Yes that is ,my favourite as well. You've got some distracting yellow/red haloing going on there though. Haloing can be a problem with narrowband imaging when you combine them all together. O111 being close to blue often has quite soft stars. I find a star mask on the Ha and O111 often reduces or prevents these. They are easy to have happen.

Greg.

[Andy01 (Andy)]

Beautiful work Marcus + 1 to all the above for colour preference
I struggled mightily with getting a HST palette to look good on this as well.
Your enhanced LHaOIIIRGB version rocks!

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Meah...all are good, can't really pick a favourite. Always good when you can see the tenuous OIII that kinda hovers within the bright bits of M17

Nice work Marcus

Mike

[Atmos (Colin)]

My vote goes to the LHaOIIIRGB version also

[Placidus (Mike and Trish)]

All four show a truly remarkable amount of detail. We're surprised how much detail there is in the straight RGB, and how little extra is added in this very particular case by NB.

If we had to pick a favourite it would be the L Ha OIII RGB combo. It seems to have everything good, including faintest and sharpest, and nothing troublesome. A curious observation is that the stars seem larger in the combo version.

No objection to the colour in the straight Hubble Palette version. It's just a tiny bit too brassy compared with the combo version, which is more subtle.

Lovely work all round.

[Rod771 (Rod)]

Think I'll just take all four thanks, Marcus.

Thanks for posting all version. You've illustrated what can be achieved using different imaging/mapping techniques. Very enjoyable to see.

[DJScotty (Scott)]

They are all very good, but my vote goes with the Ha LRGB version. Very distinct difference between the 4 of them. Nothing bad at all.

Well done

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by RickS

An interesting comparison, Marcus. My favourite is the LHaOIIIRGB. I don't like the look of the Hubble palette much on this object. Not sure why?

Cheers,
Rick.

Thanks Rick! Truth be told I've always thought the Swan was a less than photogenic target at the best of times - rather bland in fact. I've rarely seen an image of it that I really like. That's why I went after it so hard - to see if I could change my own opinion!

Originally Posted by gregbradley

Yes that is ,my favourite as well. You've got some distracting yellow/red haloing going on there though. Haloing can be a problem with narrowband imaging when you combine them all together. O111 being close to blue often has quite soft stars. I find a star mask on the Ha and O111 often reduces or prevents these. They are easy to have happen.

Greg.

Cheers Greg! I agree the Ha and OIII enhanced version nicely shows the nuanced interplay of HII and OIII.

Because of the differential seeing between filters, the stars were less than perfect. After seeing your comment I doctored them a little in the Ha + OIII version to reduce the red ringing. I'll do the same in the Ha enhanced version soon. I'm not going to change the SHO version stars though - I prefer to leave them as is after reducing the strong magenta halos. There's just something weird about seeing RGB stars in a false colour image!

Originally Posted by Andy01

Beautiful work Marcus + 1 to all the above for colour preference
I struggled mightily with getting a HST palette to look good on this as well.
Your enhanced LHaOIIIRGB version rocks!

Thanks Andy! Looks like the Ha+OIII enhancement is the winner! I quite like the way my SHO version ended up and I probably won't change it ... unless you show me a better looking result! Have you done an SHO swan?

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Meah...all are good, can't really pick a favourite. Always good when you can see the tenuous OIII that kinda hovers within the bright bits of M17

Nice work Marcus

Mike

Thanks a lot Mike! I drew inspiration from your bi-colour version but I chose a slightly "richer" and perhaps (dare I say) a more "natural" look by using all 6 filters as evenhandedly as I could.

Originally Posted by Atmos

My vote goes to the LHaOIIIRGB version also

Thanks Colin!

Originally Posted by Placidus

All four show a truly remarkable amount of detail. We're surprised how much detail there is in the straight RGB, and how little extra is added in this very particular case by NB.

If we had to pick a favourite it would be the L Ha OIII RGB combo. It seems to have everything good, including faintest and sharpest, and nothing troublesome. A curious observation is that the stars seem larger in the combo version.

No objection to the colour in the straight Hubble Palette version. It's just a tiny bit too brassy compared with the combo version, which is more subtle.

Lovely work all round.

Thanks very much Mike & Trish! The difference is of course the colour interplay and aesthetic that each palette imparts (rather than the detail). Naturally I pushed each to the limit in terms of detail, depth and colour (as I do with all my images). Nothing worries me or gets my OCD going more than the thought of leaving faint data & detail unseen in the final rendering! I also had to treat each version in similar ways so that overall detail, brightness and tonal quality were similar for comparison purposes.

I guess the stars aren't exactly the same between versions - but they're close. The LRGB ones, as you'd imagine, were the fattest but I hit them hard with star reduction techniques - perhaps too much . The NB enhanced RGB version's stars didn't require much work except for ensuring reasonable RGB colours and minimising halos.

Hmmm, I used to like a good brass band. But I tend to agree a nice guitar or violin concerto has the edge!

Originally Posted by Rod771

Think I'll just take all four thanks, Marcus.

Thanks for posting all version. You've illustrated what can be achieved using different imaging/mapping techniques. Very enjoyable to see.

Cheers Rod! I'm glad you liked them all - much effort went into to processing them!

Originally Posted by DJScotty

They are all very good, but my vote goes with the Ha LRGB version. Very distinct difference between the 4 of them. Nothing bad at all.

Well done

Ah HA!!! Someone likes the Ha version! Good on you Scotty and thanks! I've done a lot of Ha blends over the years and you can get brilliant results if you do it right. I could spend more time on it to spruce it up a bit more but then I wouldn't be on a level playing field for comparison purposes.

[Peter.M]

A girl is not ready to become no-one

[Paul Haese]

I think I prefer the LHaRGB version. In any event there is still good detail in all the images. I think the orientation could have been a little more rotated around and a little further to the left to include the bottom of the nebula. I really like the colour in the nebula though with the LRGB inclusions. When I did a broad spectrum image of this target a few years ago I was never happy with the colour that the NB data brought with it. Not sure if NB really lends itself to this object. Though the detail gained is certainly very interesting over the LRGB data alone.

[troypiggo (Troy)]

Excellent work. I'm with the majority above - LHaOIIIRGB version.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

I think I prefer the LHaRGB version. In any event there is still good detail in all the images. I think the orientation could have been a little more rotated around and a little further to the left to include the bottom of the nebula. I really like the colour in the nebula though with the LRGB inclusions. When I did a broad spectrum image of this target a few years ago I was never happy with the colour that the NB data brought with it. Not sure if NB really lends itself to this object. Though the detail gained is certainly very interesting over the LRGB data alone.

Thanks Paul! You're quite right about the composition but all that was needed was to move it higher in the frame (the displayed image is a crop). Maybe next time!

Originally Posted by troypiggo

Excellent work. I'm with the majority above - LHaOIIIRGB version.

Onya Troy - cheers!

[atalas]

Hi Marcus

Hey,as I mentioned on Gregs thread...I just don't like this object but,If your going to do It?do It like this!!! awesome....I might even get to like the Swan.

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by atalas

Hi Marcus
...I just don't like this object but,If your going to do It?do It like this!!! awesome....I might even get to like the Swan.

High praise Louie! Thanks very much!

I never really liked it either, that's why I imaged it! I think that's because many renderings (other than NB or BVR) tend to look somewhat monochromatic or at best dichromatic and lacking depth. I'm a firm believer that there are no such nebulae and that all are intrinsically complex in terms of colour and tonal range. I think that's why the majority, including myself, like the Ha and OIII enhanced LRGB version the most - it renders that complexity.

[atalas]

That sounds like good logic Marcus.... monochromatic,dichromatic...are you saying that colour makes a difference to depth?or that It adds to the impact of the complexity?

Looking through again....the fine detail really is incredibly well defined!

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

I think that's because many renderings (other than NB or BVR) tend to look somewhat monochromatic or at best dichromatic and lacking depth. I'm a firm believer that there are no such nebulae and that all are intrinsically complex in terms of colour and tonal range.

Weeell ...not quuuite true IMO Marcus quite a number of other nebulae, liiiike NGC 6357, 6334 and 3603 for eg. do indeed have very little colour dynamics going on in straight L/RGB ...and yes, certainly, doing them in NB is possibly a way to make them more appealing from an colour/artistic point of view ...but in the end they is what they is and we should rejoice in that regardless

Mike

[atalas]

Well Mike(my favorite Astro imager dude),the colour view might be debatable? but I think Marcus has a good point on the complexity of all nebula... if resolution of the instuments allow I would imagine.

Colour seems to have an impact but probably psychological maybe...my question to Marcus still stands, and am curious If colour really adds depth or is our brain tricking us

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Originally Posted by atalas

That sounds like good logic Marcus.... monochromatic,dichromatic...are you saying that colour makes a difference to depth?or that It adds to the impact of the complexity?

Looking through again....the fine detail really is incredibly well defined!

I meant depth simply in the context of rendering the fainter extents. This is in addition to a lack of colour nuance and tonal range in other versions I've seen that can detract from the visual complexity and appeal of an image.

Thanks again Louie - glad you liked the image(s)!

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Weeell ...not quuuite true IMO Marcus quite a number of other nebulae, liiiike NGC 6357, 6334 and 3603 for eg. do indeed have very little colour dynamics going on in straight L/RGB ...and yes, certainly, doing them in NB is possibly a way to make them more appealing from an colour/artistic point of view ...but in the end they is what they is and we should rejoice in that regardless

Mike

Not sure what you're disputing Mike . Put more simply, I'm saying there's no such thing as a boring nebula either in terms of colour or tonal range. I've been guilty of thinking that from time to time which is why I went after the Swan. BTW, the Lobster is not monochromatic either and, if processed properly, has good tonal range and a decent amount of colour nuance.