recommendation for eyepiece between 42mm and 22mm

[jeelan (Jeelan)]

i've spent the last few nights in Perth doing a lot of DSO gazing and found myself predominantly using my LVW 42mm and Pentax XW 20mm the most.

Occasionally i changed out to the LVW 17mm but that was fairly infrequent.

I find myself enjoying the 42mm - 20mm range the most at the moment, so my question is, what would you recommend around the 30mm size for an additional eyepiece?

FYI - i really like the darker background and contrast of the XW eyepieces, however the viewing comfort of the Vixen LVW is just sublime.

Ideally I want something that shares both those characteristics Probably something that will give me around 100x magnification (scope is 2800mm f/l).

any suggestions?

cheers
Jeelan

[Kunama]

Panoptic 27 ? Similar eye relief, AFOV to the LVWs and XWs.

Nagler31? Wider AFOV, nice eye relief but quite a heavy beastie.

[jeelan (Jeelan)]

Thanks Matt,

i've been reading up on the Panoptic v Nagler and leaning towards the Pano at the moment.

How do the ES pieces in this category fit? comparable in IQ?

cheers
Jeelan

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

The Pano may look similar in terms of specs but it's a different beast to the LVW or the XW (which are more similar to each other, though I have not used the 42mm LVW). IIRC the panos have more pincushion distortion and a slightly warmer colour tone. That's not a bad thing, just different. (Pincushion is much preferable to barrel distortion btw, for reasons ... )

With a long f-ratio scope you have a lot more options than us dobbers. But the Nagler 31mm T5 is still the undisputed champ around that focal length. I prefer the 30mm XW though, but it's no longer available. Maybe ES 30mm ultra-wide??? (never tried one but a lot of folk seem to like it)

You could also just get a 30mm Superview (because it's cheap and will do all right in your scope) just to see if that focal length really suits your observing habits. Sometimes you think you should "fill a gap" only to find it does not need filling IME.

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by jeelan

Thanks Matt,

i've been reading up on the Panoptic v Nagler and leaning towards the Pano at the moment.

How do the ES pieces in this category fit? comparable in IQ?

cheers
Jeelan

I know nothing about the ES range, have never owned one, but others seem to find them suitable. I have the N31T5 and the N22T4 as well as the XW20. I find they suit my Dob ( Focal length of 2550mm)

[jeelan (Jeelan)]

I've got a couple of WANTED ads floating around for a XW 30 but i'm guessing i'll have more luck getting water from a rock :-)

I'll have to see if anyone i know has a Nagler 31 to have a look through it.

cheers
Jeelan

[MortonH]

The ES68 28mm would be a good option at the cheaper end of the scale.

[clive milne]

I'm assuming this is for a C11?
In which case the Nag 31 is highly recommended.

[Wavytone]

Well... to state the obvious there is an LVW42mm, and I have one as the eye relief is important to me (specs), and IMHO I don't value the ultra wide fields of views particularly in low power eyepieces. There is something to be said for having a black field stop limiting the apparent field of view and maximising your dark adaption.

The Nagler, Panoptic or ES 30mm 82 degree are alternatives.

However: in my scope the LVW42 appears be pretty much uniform optically across the whole field, i.e. pinpoint, no ghosts, no odd reflections.

The ES30/82 is pretty good but has less eye relief. Most of the field is flat and sharp but the outermost 10% shows lateral chromatic error and with bright objects near the edge there is a nasty internal reflection off the inside of the draw tube. One downside of this eyepiece is that it is a real monster the size of a house brick - 1kg - and enough to possibly upset the balance of a C11.

Naglers and Pans... very good as one would expect if you want to pay that much, however the eye relief is again much shorter than the LVW42.

[jeelan (Jeelan)]

hey Wavy,

I'm trying to plug the gap between the my 42mm and the LVW22mm/XW 20mm.

however the comment from JANOSKISS has given me some pause: "Sometimes you think you should "fill a gap" only to find it does not need filling IME."

that being said, i dont have issue considering the N31 except for weight and weight shouldn't bother me on the C11, it'll handle it so i'm just waiting for an opportunity to try/look through this one and the Panoptic before making a decision.

cheers
Jeelan

[N1 (Mirko)]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

You could also just get a 30mm Superview (because it's cheap and will do all right in your scope) just to see if that focal length really suits your observing habits. Sometimes you think you should "fill a gap" only to find it does not need filling IME.

+1
That, or a 32PL. The TV example might just be good enough to be a permanent fixture if you can handle the limited AFOV.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by jeelan

i dont have issue considering the N31 except for weight and weight shouldn't bother me on the C11, it'll handle it so i'm just waiting for an opportunity to try/look through this one and the Panoptic before making a decision.

If you find either of those in good nick second hand and you look after it, then it's like a free or postage-cost rental (should you change your mind) because they hold their resale value very well. Same goes for most premo or even a notch below premo EPs. But checking them out first if you can is a good idea in any case. Good luck solving your zeroth world problem.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by jeelan

I'm trying to plug the gap between the my 42mm and the LVW22mm/XW 20mm.

PS. you could also just go fpr a 20ish mm ultra- (80-deg) or hyper- (100-deg) wide, e.g., Nagler 22mm T4 or Ethos 21mm, or one of their cloned or inspired equivalents from another manufacturer ...

From Televue, the first EP that really impressed me was the 13mm Ethos. The 21mm Ethos has (amongst friends) the same FOV as the 26mm T5 Nagler and will mop the floor with the 27mm Pano. It's a more modern design as well, from lenses to coatings, geometric distortion and colour balance... I like the Ethos' a lot but you have to see for yourself if 100-degree FOV is really practical and note that I am merely expressing a personal opinion here: my eyes, my optic nerves, my brains. aka YMMV.

[casstony]

To my eye the views through an ES 30mm and Nagler 31 are identical in a C11. The ES 28mm is also a very nice eyepiece.

The ES 40mm and Pan 41 are also very close in a C11 with the Pan showing slightly less aberrated stars in the outer field. On axis they're identical.

[Wavytone]

Jeelan,

I found I was usually using either LV50 or LVW42 as the lowest power then switching to 22 or 13mm.

When assembling my set I had originally bought a couple of 30mm eyepieces (NLVW and a TMB Paragon) but rapidly found them pointless and sold them.

Personally I wouldn't bother with a 17mm either, its too close to 13mm or 22mm.

IMHO you really only need 3 eyepieces:

a) lowest power your scope can handle (basically a field stop as big as you can get in the barrel)

b) a medium power about 1X per mm of aperture, this equates to an eyepiece with a focal length in mm equal to the focal ratio of your scope, or a tad less; this will be the one you use most when the seeing is average to poor;

c) a high power about 1.5X per mm of aperture, you might use this occasionally when seeing is really steady.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

@Wavytone sorry to be blunt but your advice on EP selection (3 EPs, abc) is terrible. I can't be bothered explaining why (it's late and I'm out of energy) but maybe others can chip in. Or just think about it for a minute.

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

@Wavytone sorry to be blunt but your advice on EP selection (3 EPs, abc) is terrible. I can't be bothered explaining why (it's late and I'm out of energy) but maybe others can chip in. Or just think about it for a minute.

Agree with you here Steve. Wavytone's eyepieces would have my 18" give magnifications of 60x 450x and 675x

Strange, as I usually find his posts very informative.

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

PS. you could also just go fpr a 20ish mm ultra- (80-deg) or hyper- (100-deg) wide, e.g., Nagler 22mm T4 or Ethos 21mm, or one of their cloned or inspired equivalents from another manufacturer ...

From Televue, the first EP that really impressed me was the 13mm Ethos. The 21mm Ethos has (amongst friends) the same FOV as the 26mm T5 Nagler and will mop the floor with the 27mm Pano. It's a more modern design as well, from lenses to coatings, geometric distortion and colour balance... I like the Ethos' a lot but you have to see for yourself if 100-degree FOV is really practical and note that I am merely expressing a personal opinion here: my eyes, my optic nerves, my brains. aka YMMV.

Looking at the calculator, the Nagler 26 actually fits well between the LVW42 and the XW20 almost halfway in fact. 106x , TFOV 0.759 degrees, 2.59mm exit pupil and a field transit time at zero DEC of 3 minutes.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

Looking at the calculator, the Nagler 26 actually fits well ...

Never look at "the calculator"! I assume it's based on a geometric progression, which is a big improvement over a linear scale based on EP FL or magnification (that some lesser manufacturers go for). But our eyes and brains don't work that way. We need one or at most two wide-fields and more options for the close-up tease-out-detail stuff. (Actually the "calculator", if it works how I think it does, can help with the latter.)

Nevertheless, uncle Nagler's T5 26mm would indeed also be a very good choice with less hand grenade factor than the 31mm.

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by janoskiss

Never look at "the calculator"! I assume it's based on a geometric progression, which is a big improvement over a linear scale based on EP FL or magnification (that some lesser manufacturers go for). But our eyes and brains don't work that way. We need one or at most two wide-fields and more options for the close-up tease-out-detail stuff. (Actually the "calculator", if it works how I think it does, can help with the latter.)

Nevertheless, uncle Nagler's T5 26mm would indeed also be a very good choice with less hand grenade factor than the 31mm.

Here is the calculator I use:

http://www.stargazing.net/naa/scopemath.htm

enjoy it Steve !!!