Moravian cameras how do you rate them?

gregbradley · #1 13-02-2016, 09:54 AM

I am looking to get a 16200 camera. The only makers at present are FLI ML16 around USD$6750, SBIG STXL 16200 USD$6995, Moravian G3 16200 2910 Euros, QHY to be released but USD$3999.

QHY are popular but they always come across as the cheap alternative and perhaps you get what you pay for. Is that fair?

Moravian seem to be a high standard but a bit not so well known. A few use them. How are they? Would you recommend them?

In a ccd camera what you need is good cooling, low noise from the supporting electronics, fast downloads, reliability, no ghost reflections so proper anti reflection coatings, no dew, no frosting in the CCD chamber so Argon filled and hermetically sealed CCD Chambers. Low weight. Fat cameras cause problems just like with bodies!

Ideally also integrated filter wheel and guiding solutions to combat flex.

What's your experience with them? Are they good or cheap and nasty?

Greg.

PRejto (Peter) · #2 14-02-2016, 12:52 PM

Greg,

As you know I've answered you privately.

For the record, Moravian cameras are absolutely not cheap and nasty. They are high quality cameras with very good build and good 2 stage cooling. Mine works beautifully with TSX. The driver is very stable. About 4-5 years ago I did have driver issues but these are long resolved and I'm happy with my camera. Do they download as fast or cool as much as an FLI, perhaps not (I actually don't know about the latest models). Personally I would buy another camera from Moravian if the need arose.

Peter

Strawb (Dave) · #3 14-02-2016, 04:21 PM

I have two. Excellent build and excellent local service too. I use mine mainly with an AX103S and now trying out with a VMC 260. As Peter says the software works well also

bugeater (Marty) · #4 15-02-2016, 11:11 PM

Marginally off topic, but I've been looking at these Moravian cameras too, and they do look interesting. A 16200 would be nice, but I'll probably just get an 8300.

Versus say an Atik 383L+ pros seem to be better cooling and lower dark current (apparently better than most other 8300 implementations). Also I think it works okay with an EOS lens adapter (which could be interesting).

Cons are I think the filterwheel only works with a Moravian camera and a noticeably higher price. Also not sure about Indi support for linux (should I go that way).

Decisions, decisions...

Eden (Brett) · #5 16-02-2016, 04:00 AM

Hi Greg,

I haven't any experience with Moravian cameras, but it might be useful to know that QHY have invested a lot towards improving their build quality (and their service) in recent times.

lazjen (Chris) · #6 16-02-2016, 08:25 AM

It's probably not relevant to most, but there's no Linux support for these cameras as far as I am aware. The other 3 brands mentioned in OP (SBIG, FLI and QHY) have Linux support.

h0ughy (David) · #7 16-02-2016, 10:27 PM

well i still haven't used mine but i hope to sometime this year finally. don't regret it

Eden (Brett) · #8 17-02-2016, 03:39 AM

On the subject of 16200-based cameras, QHY have just posted a sample image of NGC2264 taken with their camera.

NGC2264 on QHY16200A Camera

It would be interesting to see some images from other manufacturers for comparison.

Slawomir (Suavi) · #9 17-02-2016, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eden

On the subject of 16200-based cameras, QHY have just posted a sample image of NGC2264 taken with their camera.

NGC2264 on QHY16200A Camera

It would be interesting to see some images from other manufacturers for comparison.

There is one from FLI: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=141626

gregbradley · #10 17-02-2016, 08:28 AM

That looks good. Its the surrounding camera, accessories and software compatibility that makes the difference.

My experience with cameras has been SBIG, FLI, Starlight Express. All have been good. I had problems with FLI and SX with software compatibility and they were a bit of a struggle to get up and running in the software I used but that's all past and their current software is up to date (SX was still a bit of a struggle though).

How is QHY in that regards? Does it work in Sky X? CCDsoft? or only Maxim?

Same with Moravian. I don't want another software fight. I'm done on those.

Greg.

bugeater (Marty) · #11 17-02-2016, 09:16 AM

I've been looking around at linux support for Moravian and a discussion in the indi forums suggests an indi driver will be out very soon, plus an updated linux driver.

E_ri_k (Erik) · #12 17-02-2016, 09:40 AM

Hey Greg, I had problems with my QHY's and The SkyX, sometimes they'd connect, and other times not. I found the built in QHY driver support didn't work and I had to use ASCOM, but still it was hit and miss.

May work for others though, I just stuck to using MaximDL & ASCOM in the end. I'm using SGP now and the QHY's work fine through ASCOM.

Erik

gregbradley · #13 17-02-2016, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeater

I've been looking around at linux support for Moravian and a discussion in the indi forums suggests an indi driver will be out very soon, plus an updated linux driver.

You must have an unusual setup as I am not aware of any astro software that is Linux based. Is it a custom setup?

Linux compatibility is not something I personally require.

Greg.

gregbradley · #14 17-02-2016, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E_ri_k

Hey Greg, I had problems with my QHY's and The SkyX, sometimes they'd connect, and other times not. I found the built in QHY driver support didn't work and I had to use ASCOM, but still it was hit and miss.

May work for others though, I just stuck to using MaximDL & ASCOM in the end. I'm using SGP now and the QHY's work fine through ASCOM.

Erik

Ouch - exactly what I don't like. Clear nights are rare enough and you go to image and something won't connect - just great! No thanks. Its reliable or its the garbage can.

Greg.

E_ri_k (Erik) · #15 17-02-2016, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregbradley

Ouch - exactly what I don't like. Clear nights are rare enough and you go to image and something won't connect - just great! No thanks. Its reliable or its the garbage can.

Greg.

I know the frustration! Software battles are no fun....in saying that though, ASCOM and QHY, no problem

Erik

bugeater (Marty) · #16 17-02-2016, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gregbradley

You must have an unusual setup as I am not aware of any astro software that is Linux based. Is it a custom setup?

Linux compatibility is not something I personally require.

Greg.

Seems pretty much everything you can do in Windows you can do in Linux and in many cases with the same software. Indi seems to be equivalent to ASCOM. I have a few OS-less computers lying around, so linux is a free way to get them up and operational.

gregbradley · #17 17-02-2016, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeater

Seems pretty much everything you can do in Windows you can do in Linux and in many cases with the same software. Indi seems to be equivalent to ASCOM. I have a few OS-less computers lying around, so linux is a free way to get them up and operational.

Sounds good if you good at IT. I hear Linux is way more reliable and stable compared to windows. But I find Windows XP and 7 fine for my observatory. It doesn't give me any grief once you get the drivers working and the device will connect. Sometimes that part is hard to setup when its a new brand of camera for you.

Greg.

lazjen (Chris) · #18 18-02-2016, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bugeater

I've been looking around at linux support for Moravian and a discussion in the indi forums suggests an indi driver will be out very soon, plus an updated linux driver.

Yes, just noticed this myself. It will be interesting to see how it all goes.

PRejto (Peter) · #19 18-02-2016, 07:56 PM

Greg,

The Moravian driver for TSX works very well. I use it all the time and it is rock solid.

Peter

Eden (Brett) · #20 19-02-2016, 08:45 PM

There are several really nice images over on Astrobin that were taken with Moravian cameras. I know Peter has turned out some great images with his.

Thanks for starting this thread, Greg. I wasn't aware that the 16200 was priced so aggressively. A sensor of this size with such a generous full well capacity makes for an attractive alternative to Sony-based cameras in the same price bracket.

The Moravian price almost seems too good to be true, considering the current exchange rate. If QHY go to market at $3999 USD, the Moravian still works out at $1100 AUD cheaper.

The price delta between brands can't be ignored and I wonder if sensor grading plays a part there? Feature-wise the FLI has a water cooling option but does this justify the huge gap?

Edit: Looks like FLI and QHY are using standard grade sensors, according to their documentation. SBIG and Moravian don't specify.