Autoguider recommendations?

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

I am desperate to try some photography of DSO's (which is really what sparked my interest in astronomy to start with) but will need an autoguider - looking through threads here and at general chat on the web - Orion seems popular. I have a Celestron 1100 Edge HD with a CGEM DX mount. Any thoughts on what would be best (or any pitfalls to avoid) would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers!

[traveller (Bo)]

I have used the Orion Start Shooter and now have the Star Shooter Pro. Both highly recommended (ZWO also have a guider with similar specs to the Star Shooter Pro).
http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotog...7/catmenu.aspx
I would recommend you shoot initially using a lower FL scope such as the ED80 with 600mm FL. Your 1100 will have a FL of 2800mm, which will only frustrate you with blurred image unless you have everything spot on (focus, tracking etc). In any case, shooting at that FL will probably best done using an off axis guider.
My suggestion is for you to get the 50mm guidescope kit and pair it with an ED80 to begin with and then move up the FL once you are getting some results and confidence.
Bo

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

Thanks Bo - that has given me some good information and some more things to research. Cheers!

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Cindi
Good advice from Bo. As an imaging newb, I have just gone through figuring out the Orion SSAG Pro (this one http://www.bintel.com.au/Astrophotog...oductview.aspx ) and it was quite easy with PHD2. From what I have been told, it is a rebadged version of the QHY5 which is very popular.

I tried the 50mm guidescope and found it a little frustrating, but that was probably just my own inexperience. Focal length will be a challenge, thats why most people (self included) start off with an ED80 or similar.

Malcolm

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Adding to the others' good advice, I would get an OAG and sensitive guide cam. at that FL you are going to need OAG, Bo is correct it is easier starting off guided exposures on a shorter FL scope but if the end game is to be using the 1100 you may as well go straight for an OAG whether it is an ED80 or the 1100 - you will need a strong focuser however.

good luck!

Russ

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

Originally Posted by rustigsmed

Adding to the others' good advice, I would get an OAG and sensitive guide cam. at that FL you are going to need OAG, Bo is correct it is easier starting off guided exposures on a shorter FL scope but if the end game is to be using the 1100 you may as well go straight for an OAG whether it is an ED80 or the 1100 - you will need a strong focuser however.

good luck!

Russ

Thanks Russell!
What is your advice regarding a "sensitive guide cam" and a "strong focuser"? I have been doing so much reading around this stuff that it is making my head spin...

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by caj1311

Thanks Russell!
What is your advice regarding a "sensitive guide cam" and a "strong focuser"? I have been doing so much reading around this stuff that it is making my head spin...

Do you have an imaging camera already? Is it OSC or mono, filter wheel? once you start adding things down the camera end all the weight starts adding up and is often causes focus slip or tilt or the stock focuser can't even hold the weight, a lot of people upgrade their focusers.

I am not familiar with the 1100's focuser, however aftermarket focusers such as moonlite or feather touch are considered strong. http://focuser.com/products.php
http://starlightinstruments.com/stor...te=common/home


I think people would consider the lodestar guide camera http://www.sxccd.com/lodestar-autoguider sensitive and more recently the qhy5 II http://www.gamaelectronics.com.au/guiders.html and ZWO 120mm http://www.opticscentral.com.au/zwo-...l#.VonnQkq4ZaQ These will help you obtain faint stars to guide on (they are going to be generally very faint at 2800FL).

its worth trying to consider what your imaging camera will be - if it needs a filter wheel or not, if it needs any correctors, spacers. If you haven't chosen an imaging camera and are thinking OSC the stock focuser maybe ok with an OAG but it would be worth asking someone else who has one - or try it and see how it goes, perhaps upgrade the focuser later.

[traveller (Bo)]

Star Shoot Pro is re-badged QHY5II-L, which also share the same CCD as the ZWO (AFAIK). Lodestar is very good, but also 30% more expensive than others.
As for focuser, the standard focuser on my ED80 holds up my DSLR (lightweight plastic body 1100D) and QHY8 without much difficulty but I will not add any more weight to it as it will slip and move.
Moonlite and Feathertouch are both good options. You will need something like that on your 1100 due to the long FL.
Bo

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

The QHY5II Mono although similar seems to have much easier (read: less hassles!) drivers than the Orion.
I have both the QHY5II and the original Lodestar for spectroscopy guiding - both work well but the Lodestar is still definitely better.......

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Re focuser on the C11...
I fitted the Feathertouch 10:1 microfocuser. A dramatic difference.

(I started with the Meade Zero shift electronic focuser on all my Meade SCT - 8"/10"/12" and initially used it also on the C11. Sold it with the Meade gear.... My first "improvement" to the C11 was to modify a SW electronic focuser motor to a belt drive arrangement - this worked very well! A cheap JMI focusing motor came up so I fitted that and used the SW on the solar scope. If you're happy with manual focus the Feathertouch is the way to go. If you want a simple motor driven focuser adding a SW motor with a belt drive is good)

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

Thanks for all the info - you guys are great! So having done some more reading I am thinking the Feathertouch focusser is a good idea, so I think that is a done deal. I am still considering my options regarding camera - possibly looking at SBIG with filter wheel? Will that affect my autoguider selection? I am still not really clear in my head in terms of how it all fits together - especially when I start reading some of the CCD info re "self-guiding" etc - do some of them not need OAG? Sorry for all the questions!!

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by caj1311

Thanks for all the info - you guys are great! So having done some more reading I am thinking the Feathertouch focusser is a good idea, so I think that is a done deal. I am still considering my options regarding camera - possibly looking at SBIG with filter wheel? Will that affect my autoguider selection? I am still not really clear in my head in terms of how it all fits together - especially when I start reading some of the CCD info re "self-guiding" etc - do some of them not need OAG? Sorry for all the questions!!

The sbig Stt 8300 has the option to go for a self guided filter wheel, meaning it has a small ccd before the filters that can guide. With this option there is no need for another oag or guide camera. Keep in mind though if your first go at astrophotographers is shooting at long focal length with a mono ccd and self guided camera there is a lot of learning to do. This is definitely jumping into the deep end of astronomy. Not impossible but there will do many frustrating nights ahead. You should also think about the type of targets you want to image and what field of view your scope and ccd will give. If you want to image say the Orion Nebula then the set up you are talking about will require you to stitch quite a few images together in a mosaic .

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

Originally Posted by Somnium

The sbig Stt 8300 has the option to go for a self guided filter wheel, meaning it has a small ccd before the filters that can guide. With this option there is no need for another oag or guide camera. Keep in mind though if your first go at astrophotographers is shooting at long focal length with a mono ccd and self guided camera there is a lot of learning to do. This is definitely jumping into the deep end of astronomy. Not impossible but there will do many frustrating nights ahead. You should also think about the type of targets you want to image and what field of view your scope and ccd will give. If you want to image say the Orion Nebula then the set up you are talking about will require you to stitch quite a few images together in a mosaic .

Thanks Aidan. I am absolutely expecting a lot of frustration - if it all gets to me I can always piggy back my DSLR onto the scope and take some less frustrating shots ! I don't mind learning the hard way - lots of frustration makes you work out how it all needs to work. I know that the FOV is going to be very small, so mosaics are going to be necessary - I am familiar with them from terrestrial imaging but not for astro. I am going to try some high res lunar landscapes and see how I go with mosaics with them before trying anything further out. I have sent an email to Advanced Telescope Supplies for some further info on sbig CCD - I can't find many Australian suppliers? Are you (or anyone else reading this) aware of any with a website I could look through and contact as needed?

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by caj1311

Thanks Aidan. I am absolutely expecting a lot of frustration - if it all gets to me I can always piggy back my DSLR onto the scope and take some less frustrating shots ! I don't mind learning the hard way - lots of frustration makes you work out how it all needs to work. I know that the FOV is going to be very small, so mosaics are going to be necessary - I am familiar with them from terrestrial imaging but not for astro. I am going to try some high res lunar landscapes and see how I go with mosaics with them before trying anything further out. I have sent an email to Advanced Telescope Supplies for some further info on sbig CCD - I can't find many Australian suppliers? Are you (or anyone else reading this) aware of any with a website I could look through and contact as needed?

ATS is run by Peter Ward, a frequent poster here on IIS, i believe he is overseas at the moment. ATS, Bintel, Andrews comms and AEC are all good vendors, i have had good experience with them all but ultimately the best info about products come from the manufacturer themselves. SBIG has a good site with all the info you need and if you do a conversion to AUD, add on gst you will get a guide to the price.

one thing that is a premium for astrophotographers is clear moonless skies. if you are imaging in mosaics then you are going to need much more imaging time. as a rough guide, you will want an hour of subs for each filter (LRGB), a mosaic of 4 panels will take you 16 hours. so do think about the targets you want to image. if you have a DSLR, i would recommend using that first. a guide camera such as the QHY5L ii can double as a planetary camera for your long focal length OTA (if you buy second hand you can sell for a similar price down the track anyway) i would then get a nice refractor. the money you would have spent on the ccd, filter wheel, focuser and filters you can get an amazing refractor, the guide scope and camera. that will have a decent FOV so you can capture amazing shots with much less imaging time. just a thought

if you want to use the scope you have now (i completely understand that) then i would still start off with the DSLR, you wont see the benefit of a ccd yet and it requires a lot less imaging time as it is one shot colour.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

there's a guider for sale further down -complete

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

Heaps to consider and research! I am sort of swinging toward the idea of just getting a Lodestar autoguider and a feathertouch focusser, and seeing what I get with my DSLR. I am a bit worried re the amount of noise I am going to get with long exposures, but I guess if I take enough subs and darks it should be OK? Then if I find that I do love it, I can make the financial plunge for the CCD/filter wheel etc...

[Somnium (Aidan)]

Originally Posted by caj1311

Heaps to consider and research! I am sort of swinging toward the idea of just getting a Lodestar autoguider and a feathertouch focusser, and seeing what I get with my DSLR. I am a bit worried re the amount of noise I am going to get with long exposures, but I guess if I take enough subs and darks it should be OK? Then if I find that I do love it, I can make the financial plunge for the CCD/filter wheel etc...

i think that is a good plan ! i have the lodestar autoguider as well as the qhy5lII. the qhy5 is great and will do 99% of the job but the lodestar is better. are you going to guide scope or OAG?

[aarong (Aaron)]

There is some great advice here. I jumped in the deep end and started to learn how to take photos of DSO's with an 8" Meade sct at 2000mm and later with a focal reducer. It is certainly harder and more frustrating than starting out with shorter focal lengths, but still rewarding.

My journey has lead me to using a ccd camera (after starting out with a dslr) and I found that my level of precision (and learning curve) had to increase. The image scale is smaller with the ccd than the dslr and more likely to pick up any tracking, focus or other errors. So I find an OAG really helps. However, it's harder to find a guide star (small FOV) and I find the guide star is determining my composition more than I would like. I'm still learning and looking into improving this. A sensitive guide cam is very helpful here.

My advice is to look into what camera and FOV you are interested in now, but also if you ever up-grade. This will help in which autoguider and method will suit you best.

For FOV I love playing around with camera and scope combinations on this site: http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php

There is also a new book out for astrophotography, which I'm currently reading. It covers a lot of issues to think about, including software assisted or automated focusing. It's pretty good and I found out about it from this thread: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=138681

Good luck with it all and let us know how you go.
Aaron

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

Originally Posted by Somnium

i think that is a good plan ! i have the lodestar autoguider as well as the qhy5lII. the qhy5 is great and will do 99% of the job but the lodestar is better. are you going to guide scope or OAG?

OAG is the plan at this point

[caj1311 (Cindi)]

Originally Posted by jenchris

there's a guider for sale further down -complete

Thanks Jennifer - I will have a look