Nagler T6's on special at Bintel

[MortonH]

Noticed that all T6 Naglers are on special until the end of the year. However, the price has only been reduced by $30 to $449 so not a huge saving, and less of a discount than Tele Vue's annual 10% off sale.

EDIT:

In the US they have been reduced by $40, which drops the price from $310 to $270 (a reduction of 12.9%).

Bintel's reduction of A$30 drops the price from A$479 to A$449 (a reduction of 6.3%).

Hmmm...

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

They probably don't move many of them. Hence why they didn't pass the full discount, which would hurt them.
I'm yet to meet anyone in the field who owns any type 6's. With 12mm of stated ER, I'm not surprised.
Also, if your willing to spend ~$450 for an eyepiece, you may as well pony up for the equivalent focal length Delos, which is sensibly, optically perfect. With only 10 degree AFOV less with 20mm ER I couldn't see why you wouldn't pass over the type 6.

[Larryp (Laurie)]

I have 4 of the type 6, and find them a superb eyepiece-I find the eye relief adequate, and it never bothers me.

[MortonH]

Agree that the Delos are better, but the small size and weight of the Naglers is still a factor for some. All but one of my eyepieces weigh between 150g and 285g, which means they are light enough to use in all my scopes without balance problems. The 12mm eye relief isn't an issue for me, although for serious observing over extended periods (e.g. a week at Astrofest) something with long eye relief would be more relaxing on the eyes. So I might look at replacing the 14mm Delos I sold, or possibly get the 12mm, since 12-14mm seems to be the sweet spot for a lot of deep sky objects in my Newt.

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

As this is the eyepiece discussions thread................
I agree with both Laurie and Morton. I find the T6 a really good eyepiece, and appreciate the small size, and don't really need 20mm of eye relief. I have a Delos 17.3 which I reckon is better than the Naglers, but I dislike the huge eye lens, which when operating at home, reflects any incidental light from street lights to the smallest amount of house light escaping from behind the curtains. The Delos comes into its own when out at my dark sky site, just love the 72 degree field which I don't have to move my eyeball to see all of.

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Originally Posted by The Mekon

but I dislike the huge eye lens, which when operating at home, reflects any incidental light from street lights to the smallest amount of house light escaping from behind the curtains. The Delos comes into its own when out at my dark sky site, just love the 72 degree field which I don't have to move my eyeball to see all of.

You see Morton? This is why we need horse blinders for astronomers lol.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

Noticed that all T6 Naglers are on special until the end of the year. However, the price has only been reduced by $30 to $449 so not a huge saving, and less of a discount than Tele Vue's annual 10% off sale.

EDIT:

In the US they have been reduced by $40, which drops the price from $310 to $270 (a reduction of 12.9%).

Bintel's reduction of A$30 drops the price from A$479 to A$449 (a reduction of 6.3%).

Hmmm...

Yep - one of the upsides you can get away with when you are a business that holds a monopoly over the market (i.e. 'us') in being the sole Australian vendor of Televue

I think the real question isn't so much debating whether the Nagler T6 eyepiece is any good etc - as clearly they are an excellent eyepice design etc.

The real question is why would anyone buy a genuine Televue T6 Nagler anymore when Explore Scientific produce a range of clones which optically are identical (as best as I have ever been able to garner) and yet at less than half the price - with or without any Televue sale price

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Originally Posted by Profiler

I think the real question isn't so much debating whether the Nagler T6 eyepiece is any good etc - as clearly they are an excellent eyepice design etc.

The real question is why would anyone buy a genuine Televue T6 Nagler anymore when Explore Scientific produce a range of clones which optically are identical (as best as I have ever been able to garner) and yet at less than half the price - with or without any Televue sale price

This is also a good point. Didn't want to make this point though. Lots of Televue fans around here.

[MortonH]

Not quite identical optically but very, very close.

QC, on the other hand, not so close. As far as I know ES haven't fixed the flare issue on the 82° line, which makes them unusable for observing things like occultations. This is an irritating deficiency in my 4.7mm and 6.7mm which are otherwise very good.

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Flare issue aye? You might have to elaborate on that one Mort. I haven't seen this is my 6.7mm. I observed the Saturn occultation just fine with it.
A bit of research from reviews and user testimony returns very little information. Wouldn't you agree a flaring issue of an eyepiece making them unusable for visual observation would be more widely reported?

What scope were you using when you were attempting this if its OK to ask?

[MortonH]

I mentioned the flare issue in this thread last year:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=123827

It's been well documented on CN. I think it was often described as "glare" rather than flare. ES even sent me some felt circles to attach to the bottom of the eyepiece. Unfortunately this didn't help.

Maybe saying they are "unusable" on the moon is a bit harsh, but I found it bad enough that I wouldn't use them for that purpose. Fine for planets though.

I was using my SV80ED.

[PlanetMan]

FWIW I found the Explore Scientific eyepieces to be excellent as well and can't understand why anyone would spend the extra for a Televue.

I accept you would get a Televue if there wasn't an ES equal (eg 3-6 Nagler zoom). However I had a 13mm T6 Nagler and it was a brilliant eyepiece! Only problem was I also got a ES 14mm which was just as good and barely cost a $120 2nd hand!

Maybe others can see differences and know something special and what to look for but I suspect the other 85% of people would be happy with an ES. I only hope ES prices don't creep up. I suspect the only reason we have a Televue special on T6 Naglers is due to the Explore Scientific range.

Bottom line is monopolies are very bad things for consumers and whenever possible people should try to break them - this translates to giving support to Explore Scientific wherever possible

Finally I have no relationship with either company - in a choice between a Televue or Explore Scientific I pick a Takahashi LE every time

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by PlanetMan

Bottom line is monopolies are very bad things for consumers and whenever possible people should try to break them - this translates to giving support to Explore Scientific wherever possible

The monopoly in this scenario is Bintel, not Tele Vue, so I don't see that as a valid reason to support ES.

You might find this interesting. I asked VTI Optics a few months ago why almost all of their ES stuff is shown as out of stock. They told me that ES doesn't seem to be interested in serving such a small market as Australia and won't give them stock. So ES loses my support in that regard.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Folks might want to check whether this is still current but I believe Explore Scientific is having a 10% off everything sale right now in all the US Astro stores.

The exchange rate isn't particularly attractive but now is the time buy if this is what you want.

[Profiler (Profiler)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

The monopoly in this scenario is Bintel, not Tele Vue, so I don't see that as a valid reason to support ES.

You might find this interesting. I asked VTI Optics a few months ago why almost all of their ES stuff is shown as out of stock. They told me that ES doesn't seem to be interested in serving such a small market as Australia and won't give them stock. So ES loses my support in that regard.

Actually - what doesn't make sense is the claim by a retail store that a manufacturer isn't interested in serving such a small market and hence why the store is supposedly out of stock all the time. Yet - at the same time this store continues to advertise itself as a vendor of those products.

To quote a classic sci fi tv show "Danger Will Robinson! - Danger Danger"

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Originally Posted by MortonH

I mentioned the flare issue in this thread last year:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=123827

It's been well documented on CN. I think it was often described as "glare" rather than flare. ES even sent me some felt circles to attach to the bottom of the eyepiece. Unfortunately this didn't help.

Maybe saying they are "unusable" on the moon is a bit harsh, but I found it bad enough that I wouldn't use them for that purpose. Fine for planets though.

I was using my SV80ED.

Ahh yes glare. I have read of that issue previously. Light scatter caused by a lack of a baffle. It didn't effect all versions though. The first generation certainly had its issues. Doesn't effect the 100 degree line though. The 9mm 100 is my preferred weapon of choice for the moon.

Ill be the first to admit the 82 degree ES line has flaws. But at 1/3rd or even 1/4th the price of the Nagler line you should expect that.

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

Also, I bought all my ES eyepieces from the US. Only my Delos and Zoom were bought here.

[MortonH]

Originally Posted by AG Hybrid

I'll be the first to admit the 82 degree ES line has flaws. But at 1/3rd or even 1/4th the price of the Nagler line you should expect that.

A shiny baffle is inexcusable at any price point in my opinion. Doing it properly would have cost a lot less than the fancy boxes they put their eyepieces in!

Then again, the Nagler T6 eyecup is too short in my opinion, which I would also consider a design flaw that hasn't been corrected in many years. So nothing is perfect.

Now that ES has increased their prices to more realistic levels they're about 50% of TV prices. Still a great bargain, obviously, unless you live in Australia and want to buy a new one.

[AG Hybrid (Adrian)]

You know. When I got my ES 24mm 68 the 1 1/4" barrel inside was unpainted. Shiny steel. So that's a thing. Was pretty angry about that.
Also I think the eyecup is too short imo which makes stray light from relatively bright sources from the side reflect on the outer lens easily. That's another thing.
I ended up unscrewing the flange from a 15mm GSO superview which was properly painted and screwing it onto the ES 24mm. Turned out to be a great eyepiece after that if you controlled light from the exterior sources.

Would still buy ES eyepieces again though. I still want either a 20mm 100 or 25mm 100. I do thoroughly enjoy the immersion of their 100 degree eyepieces.

[MortonH]

So you're saying that if I move up to 100° eyepieces it'll all be fine?