The Electric Car

xelasnave · #1 17-05-2015, 12:01 PM

I find formula E encouraging
But batteries need to be better
Will electric cars replace petrol
Limited range seems insurmountable
Any ideas?

Shiraz (Ray) · #2 17-05-2015, 12:41 PM

these look pretty good overall with 500km range - wouldn't mind being able to afford one.

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/models

raymo · #3 17-05-2015, 12:44 PM

Range is improving all the time, but I think that in the medium
term, fuel cell cars hold more promise. There are now prototypes
on test.
raymo

OzStarGazer · #4 17-05-2015, 01:11 PM

Today I went to the beach and on my way home a car puffed BLACK smoke into my face. I wish it had been an electric car...

I don't even know if it is legal to have a car with such old exhaust pipes? I don't think it is...

xelasnave · #5 17-05-2015, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiraz

these look pretty good overall with 500km range - wouldn't mind being able to afford one.

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/models

I like it.
Not bad range.

simmo · #6 17-05-2015, 03:35 PM

check out lightning motorcycles. Would love one.

Shiraz (Ray) · #7 17-05-2015, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I like it.
Not bad range.

just did a bit more reading - if I got it right, the Tesla is basically a mobile computer with seats and the operating system is regularly upgraded over the internet in the background (much like a Win8 PC). Crikey, that has some implications - "sorry I'm late, but my car was downloading an update and wouldn't go" or "I wasn't speeding your honor, someone hacked my car and they made it go faster".

Chif (Andrew) · #8 17-05-2015, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I find formula E encouraging
But batteries need to be better
Will electric cars replace petrol
Limited range seems insurmountable
Any ideas?

Yes batteries need to be better, and preferably also produced using renewable energy. Not only that, but the ability to charge them quicker needs to happen also.

When we are at that stage (not too far away), electric cars will definitely replace petrol. They are faster, less components to break down and of course better for the environment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

Today I went to the beach and on my way home a car puffed BLACK smoke into my face. I wish it had been an electric car...

I don't even know if it is legal to have a car with such old exhaust pipes? I don't think it is...

It was probably a diesel. It's not to do with the actual exhaust pipes, it's the engine itself (whether it's leaking oil or air fuel ratio was off).

xelasnave · #9 17-05-2015, 05:01 PM

I have a design for a golf cart covered in solar panels.
Just for around the property.
The panels are for charging not drive.
Just for short trips that once were walkable

Bassnut (Fred) · #10 17-05-2015, 07:42 PM

Great idea, but unfortunately electric cars generate 30 to 200% more greenhouse gas than internal combustion engines when used in Australia (guess where the electricity comes from), hydrogen cell powered is the worst by far, insanely inefficient.

Peter.M · #11 17-05-2015, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiraz

these look pretty good overall with 500km range - wouldn't mind being able to afford one.

http://www.teslamotors.com/en_AU/models

I would 100% buy one if I could afford it, in the US they have "supercharger" stations all over the country where you can fully charge it for free in about an hour. That fact alone gets around the range issues, and they have just started rolling them out here. I even read in the states some people were getting a bit cheeky and reversing the charging station in their house so that the energy they got for free from the supercharger powered their house.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Great idea, but unfortunately electric cars generate 30 to 200% more greenhouse gas than internal combustion engines when used in Australia (guess where the electricity comes from), hydrogen cell powered is the worst by far, insanely inefficient.

It is a good point to bring up the issue of power generation in Australia, but to say that an electric car generates more greenhouse than an ICE is a bit of a stretch. If anything it highlights the need for an alternate energy source. I would like to see nuclear developed, specifically in South Australia because I am of the opinion that providing cheaper power is one hurdle to innovation such as this.

Shiraz (Ray) · #12 17-05-2015, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Great idea, but unfortunately electric cars generate 30 to 200% more greenhouse gas than internal combustion engines when used in Australia (guess where the electricity comes from), hydrogen cell powered is the worst by far, insanely inefficient.

different in SA Fred - we currently get over 30% power from renewables and are on the way to 50%. On some days, we have generated more power via wind than we could use - and solar can be as high as 20-25% at the daily peak. I guess that means that electric cars would be roughly equivalent to IC in carbon output, in this state.

Bassnut (Fred) · #13 17-05-2015, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter.M

It is a good point to bring up the issue of power generation in Australia, but to say that an electric car generates more greenhouse than an ICE is a bit of a stretch..

Its not a stretch, its a fact, electric cars in Australia right now are a potential enviromental disaster. Although on board energy conversion to traction power is efficient, the generation, delivery and storage of this power is wildly inefficient and expensive (let alone the enviromental impacts of actually building them and the infrustracture to support them, which is very energy intensive). Until these factors are resolved, electric cars are vastly more enviromentaly damaging than internal combustion. I agree, alternative energy scources are the key, but let us not kid ourselves, right now, electic cars are NOT the answer to anything.

xelasnave · #14 17-05-2015, 08:52 PM

I think there would be less noise and petrol exhaust fumes if we had only electric cars.
Burning oil, coal or gas to provide them with electricity does not make since but making them solar dependent would be doable.
Storing solar power or wind power is the key..we need better batteries or should I call them accumulators.

Bassnut (Fred) · #15 17-05-2015, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I think there would be less noise and petrol exhaust fumes if we had only electric cars.
.

what!, do you consider the exhaust fumes and noise of IC bother for you to be more of a problem than the enviromental damage that electric cars cause to be a more important issue?. Thats a bit selfish.

xelasnave · #16 17-05-2015, 09:39 PM

I only said there would be less fumes and noise and made no comment on the desirability.
Did you notice I suggested a dependence on solar energy.
On the basis that electric cars be powered by solar do you suggest there is higher environmental damage. Solar to charge the batteries.

acropolite (Phil) · #17 17-05-2015, 09:43 PM

Fred, it's refreshing to see someone who has an understanding of the limitations of electric vehicles.

The real issue is the enormous amount of power required to push a car around and the lack of sustainable capacity to feed the worldwide demand in to the future.

Combustion engines generate enormous amounts of power, an engine averaging just 25Kw over a couple of hours and would need almost 3 times the daily household national average to run for those couple of hours electrically.

Extrapolate that to the numbers of cars worldwide and you'll understand why electric cars aren't the future.

IMO future transport needs to be more efficient, public transport, foot and bicycles.

Bassnut (Fred) · #18 17-05-2015, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I only said there would be less fumes and noise and made no comment on the desirability.
Did you notice I suggested a dependence on solar energy.
On the basis that electric cars be powered by solar do you suggest there is higher environmental damage. Solar to charge the batteries.

Well yes actually. Solar panels are made of Silicon, steel, aluminium and glass. All those materials require high temperature foundries that use vast amounts of power to produce. Ive seen research that shows (depending on the scource of power, mostly coal if from China) that the carbon footprint of manufacturing solar panels can have an enviromental payback time in the order of 15 years, about the same as the usefull lifetime of a solar panel. This is improving all the time with panel efficiency BTW, but as it stands, the enviromental impact of solar panel manufacture/lifetime output use has no enviromental damage advantage over fossil fuel. Are you suprised?.

torana68 (Roger) · #19 17-05-2015, 10:07 PM

Convert your car to methanol (NOT ethanol) it's renewable, you could make it at home �� even lpg is better than the current electrics , consider where the electricity comes from now and the really environmently bad stuff in the batteries that are in use.

xelasnave · #20 17-05-2015, 10:19 PM

Yes and no.
There are no free lunches.
Phil is right about energy demand and how difficult it would be to have electric cars world wide.
I wonder what the current draw is on a formula W car..
You need 4 panels for 1000 watts which is small horses.
Your battery bank would be huge...I can work it out if I know what power an electric car would use...but indeed you would need many panels and large battery capacity just for one car.