How should space be depicted (Star Citizen & E:D)? (Also SC/Elite Backing Overview)

Jethro777 (Jethro) · #1 11-01-2015, 08:35 AM

The Colour Debate

So I play Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous (less of the latter) and got involved in an exchange on a dev forum about how space should be depicted. There are basically two camps.

1. Space is black and white. Simply depict it as such.
2. Space is full of colour - Depict it as such.

The arguments the former make is:

- That astro-photography is more artistry than science
- Images are colorized in Photoshop (e.g. In reality most of those nebulae would be white)
- That pictures such as this and this are high rendered colored images from telescopes that ARTISTS have gotten their hands on
- That our eyes do not see space that way and is not what it should look like when looking out of a ship, as we can't do long exposure with our eyes, can't enhance contrast, etc..

So I guess I'm just wrong? I feel pretty silly now.

Ironically, games take a different approach to sound in space - the in game fiction for this is that the ship "simulates" the ship sounds and reproduces them in your cockpit for you to help with orientation.

If so, I see no issue with a space ship a few hundred years from now "simulating" colour we need to work a bit to get these days.

Would you prefer to see space in colour or black and white or something in between, and how would you justify it?

Star Citizen

For those interested, the cheapest way to get into Star Citizen is to buy a Omega Mustang Pack, which basically gets you everything you need to play the final game, including Beta Access and an Arena Commander pass. You can usually pick one up here for $25. Using a rather convolued chassis upgrade system, it is possible to use the value of the Omega ($60) to upgrade to a different ship (the Avenger is recommended)that you will start in the PU in (not really necessary as you can pick up ALL ships in the final game for free using in game credits you make by playing). If you want to do this, a $5 upgrade (buy this then this) (which also makes you a BACKER and eligible for the backer rewards) to the Avenger seems a natural choice for a more balanced (you can do lots of things) start.

Includes the full 150 offline campaign mode, access to the Persistent Universe, is subscription free. Key promises are :

A rich universe focused on epic space adventure, trading and dogfighting in first person. (In the meantime, has also added FPS mode!).
Single Player – Offline or Online(Drop in / Drop out co-op play) (150 hour campaign following your fight as a UEE Fighter Pilot vs. the evil Vanduul!)
Persistent Universe (hosted by CIG) (A first person universe simulator)
Mod-able multiplayer (hosted by YOU) (This is private servers)
No Subscriptions (subscriptions are just to back game further)
No Pay to Win (all ships will be available in final game, not hidden behind paywall)

Trailer has footage captured in engine. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJJ9TcGxhNY)

The game is being developed in modules and has not entered full Alpha yet (which is when ALL modules are in Alpha State or better) but you can already play Arena Commander (which is incredible fun already!) fly against each other, the AI, freeflight mode, capture the core (like capture the flag) and so on.

My heart is more in SC than Elite mainly because of my history with Chris Roberts other games (Wing Commander, Privateer and Freelancer) so I connect emotionally better to this one.

Elite Dangerous

Elite is also doing quite well and has some great reviews for us space lovers!

Trailer here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISR4ebdGlOk

Key pledges and promises

Real Freedom - Go where you like, be what you like - pirate, bounty hunter, trader, assassin, or some mix of all of these.
Trade - Buy low, cross dangerous space lanes, evade or destroy pirates en route, then sell high, if you make the journey!
Fight - Take on the pirates or be one yourself
Progress - Get your pilot rating all the way from "Harmless" to "Elite"
Explore - Head out to the far reaches of space and discover amazing sights

Cost seems to be 40 pounds presently

https://store.elitedangerous.com/elite-dangerous.html/

I do follow "Batgirl's" youtube commentary on both games, which is quite extensive

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EFbJWf_WKM

Elite looks like a pile of fun and it is OUT NOW! (It is not in Alpha any more and is in full release, as opposed to SC which is still in development).

AG Hybrid (Adrian) · #2 11-01-2015, 09:29 AM

In a former Chris Roberts game called Freelancer, you maybe familiar with it, space was really colorful. Like every star system was located in a star forming nebula in hubble pallet. I remember downloading a mod that made space black and only colored the background with nebulosity when you were actually in a star system located in a nebula.

If RSI take a bit of artistic license and colors the background a bit, that's fine by me. But, arena commander so far indicates that the deep space background is staying quite dark.

On a side note: I am quite embarrassed with how much I calculated to have spent pledging on Star Citizen. It maybe the defining game of this decade.

Jethro777 (Jethro) · #3 11-01-2015, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AG Hybrid

In a former Chris Roberts game called Freelancer, you maybe familiar with it, space was really colorful. Like every star system was located in a star forming nebula in hubble pallet. I remember downloading a mod that made space black and only colored the background with nebulosity when you were actually in a star system located in a nebula.

If RSI take a bit of artistic license and colors the background a bit, that's fine by me. But, arena commander so far indicates that the deep space background is staying quite dark.

On a side note: I am quite embarrassed with how much I calculated to have spent pledging on Star Citizen. It maybe the defining game of this decade.

Your right, it has started quite the movement to make sure Star Citizen doesn't do it.

Here is a pic from Freelancer :

http://pixeljudge.com/file/Freelance...19152487_1.jpg

Icearcher (Chris) · #4 11-01-2015, 11:38 AM

Personally I like space to be all colourful in my games. It is just a game and its all about the enjoyment of playing. If the game was all black and white, I dont think it would interest many people.

Kal (Andrew) · #5 11-01-2015, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icearcher

Personally I like space to be all colourful in my games. It is just a game and its all about the enjoyment of playing. If the game was all black and white, I dont think it would interest many people.

^^ My opinion as well, so another vote for colour

Jethro777 (Jethro) · #6 11-01-2015, 02:59 PM

https://forums.robertsspaceindustrie...omment_4239902

fstephan
Posted: January 9

Quote:

... So what is the dev answer? Is the SC PU art team going for fantasy space, realistic space or (I hope) a more balanced approach?

Quote:

We generally use a balanced approach. We try to keep a realistic base for everything then there are some artistic freedom and imagination that goes into the final results.

PeterEde (Peter) · #7 11-01-2015, 04:23 PM

Space is colourful. It's our eyes that see it in B&W because of the way our eye is constructed.
A photo draws the colour due to the long exposures we do.
I try at least to capture real colour. I think most astro-photograhpers try to portray real colour when we colour balance our images.

I guess the real question is if we was traveling through space would we see nebula in colour if passing by at close proximity.
My answer would be both. If you are so close to a nebula that it fills your windows you would be close enough to have natural light from stars close by that are lighting the nebula.
I you are far away (light years) it would be B&W

Just my thought

barx1963 (Malcolm) · #8 11-01-2015, 05:40 PM

The argument that something is "red" or "green" is silly, it is the viewers brain that assigns the colours to particular wavelengths of light. So in effect all coloured images are constructs, just that when we see the world we are doing the constructing in our heads rather than in a computer.

Malcolm

rustigsmed (Russell) · #9 12-01-2015, 10:25 AM

the example photos you posted were false colour images. if you were to have something more aligned to what our human vision is i would suggest unmodified dslr images of space would be a "more accurate" representation - in terms of colour spectrum.

Jethro777 (Jethro) · #10 12-01-2015, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustigsmed

the example photos you posted were false colour images. if you were to have something more aligned to what our human vision is i would suggest unmodified dslr images of space would be a "more accurate" representation - in terms of colour spectrum.

That's very helpful, can you link me to a sample of unmodified dslr images of space that are colourful?

rustigsmed (Russell) · #11 12-01-2015, 01:41 PM

Justin Tillbrook is probably the best known on this site producing amazing dslr images with an unmodified camera.

http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/jt...?sort=3&page=1

however he does have some processing tricks up his sleeve to enhance the hydrogen alpha / SII (Red) appearance in his images; a standard dslr image would be a bit "less red".

Jethro777 (Jethro) · #12 12-01-2015, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rustigsmed

Justin Tillbrook is probably the best known on this site producing amazing dslr images with an unmodified camera.

http://s1172.photobucket.com/user/jt...?sort=3&page=1

however he does have some processing tricks up his sleeve to enhance the hydrogen alpha / SII (Red) appearance in his images; a standard dslr image would be a bit "less red".

That's pretty incredible right there. Is there anywhere where he goes into his technique? Just so I get this right, what exposure time is he using for these images?