Energy Consumption

[xelasnave]

It would seem that a market economy will always drive the trend to supply more ...sell more...energy.
Raising price or taxation does not appear effective.
Increased cost is passed on but consumption generally can go unaffected
Then we have wasteful consumption which seems unaffected by price.
I see the management of energy a problem which needs global attentions
Is rationing an answer or is there another solution.
With increasing population and global improvement in living standards demands will increase.
Getting rid of coal will solve some problems and introduce others.
What will we do when everyone on the planet expects 2 cars and 5 tv sets as the norm...just let the market sort it out????

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

It would seem that a market economy will always drive the trend to supply more ...sell more...energy.
Raising price or taxation does not appear effective.
Increased cost is passed on but consumption generally can go unaffected
Then we have wasteful consumption which seems unaffected by price.
I see the management of energy a problem which needs global attentions
Is rationing an answer or is there another solution.
With increasing population and global improvement in living standards demands will increase.
Getting rid of coal will solve some problems and introduce others.
What will we do when everyone on the planet expects 2 cars and 5 tv sets as the norm...just let the market sort it out????

The problem with energy demand is not actually related to generation but uncontrolled population. Whilst its a simplistic interpretation, supply increases in line with demand. WHEN population stabilises, and probably collapses substantially, demand will also stabilise and probably collapse.

There is also an interesting correlation between the availability of supply and local population growth; more T.V's, WII's DVD's PC's, less bonking...

[xelasnave]

Indeed population is key but it seems that it may increase
It will be interesting when it doubles
I doubt if my energy concerns will go away

[casstony]

I spent one night away from home recently and arrived home the next afternoon to find the TV, heater and computer had been left on all day in an empty house - can't train the wife and kids no matter how hard I try.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by casstony

I spent one night away from home recently and arrived home the next afternoon to find the TV, heater and computer had been left on all day in an empty house - can't train the wife and kids no matter how hard I try.

Recycle it, Remove power plug, Change Password, hand them the bill.... Only have to do it once

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Recycle it, Remove power plug, Change Password, hand them the bill.... Only have to do it once

I doubt it
And that is the problem ..how do you change behaviour..
Even extreme measures fail.
We make certain drugs illegal with severe penalties...little effect
Speeding fines have little impact
Motivating a human is complicated
So the future may be more of the same

[casstony]

Originally Posted by el_draco

Recycle it, Remove power plug, Change Password, hand them the bill.... Only have to do it once

I'm a poor brow beaten house husband so I can't be that assertive - I'll just keep running around switching off lights and shutting doors.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by casstony

I'm a poor brow beaten house husband so I can't be that assertive - I'll just keep running around switching off lights and shutting doors.

Better than most households Tony at least there is one person trying to conserve energy

[Kal (Andrew)]

You may be suprised to know that in Australia at least, electricity consumption has fallen for the past four years, despite the increasing population.

link

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I doubt it
And that is the problem ..how do you change behaviour..
Even extreme measures fail.
We make certain drugs illegal with severe penalties...little effect
Speeding fines have little impact
Motivating a human is complicated
So the future may be more of the same

It's true that I have only one data point to draw on.... But the trial was a success. 4 bedrooms, 2 lounge rooms $1200 p.a.... or else

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by el_draco

It's true that I have only one data point to draw on.... But the trial was a success. 4 bedrooms, 2 lounge rooms $1200 p.a.... or else

You then can be CEO of my proposed Global Energy Distribution Corporation
Having been off the grid for 18 years have not had a bill but the best thing has been the energy education.
One thing I found most useful was a solar oven.
Just a carton with foil liner and glass lid...I would place a mug of water and a mug of baked beans in it in the morning and lunch and a coffee was ready by lunch time.
I have read an efficient solar oven will even bake bread.

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by Kal

You may be suprised to know that in Australia at least, electricity consumption has fallen for the past four years, despite the increasing population.

link

See, that goes against Roms ideology

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

One thing I found most useful was a solar oven.
Just a carton with foil liner and glass lid...I would place a mug of water and a mug of baked beans in it in the morning and lunch and a coffee was ready by lunch time.
I have read an efficient solar oven will even bake bread.

Taking that long, I'd forget that my coffee was on there till the following day

[CJ (Chris)]

Originally Posted by Kal

You may be suprised to know that in Australia at least, electricity consumption has fallen for the past four years, despite the increasing population.

link

Does that figure allow for the take up of home solar power?

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

Taking that long, I'd forget that my coffee was on there till the following day

See, it has other benefits. It improves planning and memory.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by tlgerdes

Taking that long, I'd forget that my coffee was on there till the following day

By the time I was ready for it it was ready for me..did not think about it whilst doing stuff

[AndrewJ]

Does that figure allow for the take up of home solar power?

Probably not, but if you are talking Victoria, i suspect a big portion of the drop is due to all the energy intensive industries closing down the furnaces/producion lines, and turning off the lights as they lock the doors.

Andrew

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Probably not, but if you are talking Victoria, i suspect a big portion of the drop is due to all the energy intensive industries closing down the furnaces/producion lines, and turning off the lights as they lock the doors.

Andrew

Actually, if you read the article, it did. It outlined do in business demand due to some big users closing, no increase in demand from regular manufacturing, more wise consumption from users, and solar power as some of the factors

[AndrewJ]

Gday Trevor

I also tried to look for other sources specific to Victorias usage, and a lot of them noted solar panels were taking away usage from the grid at times, but they didnt really quantify it in a consistent manner,
ie is the total "consumer" consumption dropping due to wiser use
or is the consumption the same or greater, but just not coming from the grid and they dont really know how much panels are producing.
I find the numbers to be a bit "rubbery" to say the least

Andrew

[tlgerdes (Trevor)]

Their calculations say

"that the growth in output from rooftop photovoltaic solar and other small, distributed generators accounts for about 13 per cent of the shortfall."