How many believe in Evolution

[TrevorW]

A poll you can select up to two choices

[trent_julie]

Other?

[Chris85 (Chris)]

There is no "believing" in evolution. You either accept the facts, or you choose to live in la la land.

[ianB (Ian)]

I think the Poll should have a seperate box for Creationist and Intelligent design as there is a big difference between the two.

Creationists believe that all creation, Heaven Earth etc was created in a Literal time period of 6 days.

Those that beeliefe in intelligeent design "generally" believe that all life / creation came about by the act of an intelligent being ( God ) over a period of billions of years.

To add further you could include even another box for those that believe that there is a God but that he just gave the first spark to life and allowed it to evolve on its own.
( in fact that thought is apparently in line with what the Catholic church has stated in the past )

[Peter.M]

Originally Posted by ianB

Creationists believe that all creation, Heaven Earth etc was created in a Literal time period of 6 days.

If there was no earth, how long is 6 days?

[ianB (Ian)]

Keep in mind that evolution does not explain how life first started, rather it explains/theorizes how first life developed.

[deanm (Dean)]

This is a poorly-phrased poll - probably because it's a difficult question to phrase.

The question might be "do you believe in evolution? Yes or No"

There is a veritable universe of (some absurd) ideas on how we got here - aliens seeding the galaxy with primitive life forms, comets spreading panspermia, a diversity of earthly religions - each with its own traditions and inevitable myths, etc., etc..

And even then, few of these ideas explicitly exclude the possibility of evolution - intelligently directed or otherwise.

But having worked in the relatively-new field of ancient DNA, I have personally been involved in reconstructing the evolution of 2 major groups of mammals - and evolution is real (unless Him/Herself pre-arranged all of the evidence, including the fossil record, as some claim)....

Huh?!

Dean

[ianB (Ian)]

Personally speaking I think there was not much thought given to the structure of this poll.

Given time this thread will without fail degenerate, as such imho it would be better to close this thread now.

[Wavytone]

Evolution is a demonstrable fact supported by objective evidence.

It's not a matter of who believes what.

[deanm (Dean)]

Ian - how about we let the thread persist....as an experiment?!

It may evolve itself into a more robustly structured discussion (poor pun intended!).

Dean

[ianB (Ian)]

Sure, I just hope everyone will be polite and allow others to express their thoughts without someone being overly critical.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Peter.M

If there was no earth, how long is 6 days?

[LAW (Murphy)]

The difference is that Evolution is a theory supported by a weight of evidence, Creation and Intelligent Design are both hypotheses based on no physical evidence which don't make testable predictions. So Evolution is subject to constant scrutiny (and constantly holds true) whereas the 'other' two can't be proved or disproved because there's no evidence to investigate, and no predictions to validate.

Any debate about the differences between ID and Creation are also futile because they're the same idea with the 'god of the gaps' shrinking into the narrowing abyss.

[ianB (Ian)]

Actually all is not as clear cut as it may seem, many who believe in the bible and a god disagree among themselves as to how life started, many accept certain parts of the bible yet reject otherbparts, likewise there are many scientists who disagree about many areas of evolution, and this was confirmed at a sumit in France by scientists from around the world, they failed to reach agreement on numerous issues in relation to evolution, including evidence and how such evidence is interpreted.

[LAW (Murphy)]

While I'm not surprised that most people who claim to know the 'ultimate and incontrovertible truth' have differing opinions on exactly what that truth is, I'm glad you've pointed out another vital part of the scientific method. Dissent.
The fact that there is just as much fame and fortune in disproving something we once believed is what keeps science moving towards the truth, by simply saying "that's what I meant" when one's position is disproved is why we have Intelligent Designers rather than Creators.

[big-blue]

I like to think of these things in terms of levels of evidence.

such as
facts(evidence),
belief, and
faith.
eg.
1. there are facts. eg 'things fall down.'
2. belief can based on repeated facts (evidence). eg based on 1., I believe gravity exists. (never mind! the complications from relativity at this stage)
3. faith can be held without facts, and sometimes in spite of them.!

There is a gap from 2 to 3, which involves a mental 'leap' aka a paradigm shift. Basically, never try to argue with someone whose view is founded on a different paradigm !

UNfortunately I get upset when I occasionally thumb the pages of the latest 'creationist' magazine in my local newsagency. (really easy to find, in the science/astronomy section usually mixed in with astrology..!.)
What upsets me is the selective cherry picking of 'facts' that support the faith paradigm, while ignoring everything else ! I guess this is the realm of 'blind faith'.

maybe I have already said too much...anyway, you know where I am coming from. All the same, I have tremendous respect for those in the faith camp who are exploring their own faith with the same uncertainty of those who look up at the night sky in awe, from the alternative paradigm. I recall one amazing conversation with a visiting Vatican astronomer a few years back, about astronomy, more so than the nuances of faith. Ultimately the conversation was about the same fascination that comes from 'looking up'.

I guess in the end it is about how we treat each other, whichever paradigm we come from.

I will leave it there...

[ianB (Ian)]

If I remember correctly the Vatican have their own observatory.

[Zaps]

I'm in Vegas for a conference: I defy anyone to walk the strip at night and deny humans are unrelated to primates.

On second thoughts, that's very possibly libel on primates.

[marki]

Talk about dropping your gutz and running away Trevor .

[KenGee (Kenith Gee)]

God sheds a tear every time someone votes for creationism.