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Old 20-09-2013, 05:00 PM
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Scientists reveal alien life discovery

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...ife-discovery/

FULL pdf here
http://journalofcosmology.com/JOC22/milton_diatom.pdf
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Old 20-09-2013, 05:17 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Alien Lifeform
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Old 20-09-2013, 05:34 PM
Wavytone
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I'm be pretty skeptical.

Scientist catches a few diatoms at 25km up in the stratosphere.
The Perseid meteor show is taking place.
Scientist immediately concludes the only way diatoms could have got up there is that they are raining down from the Perseids - despite at least one being identifiable as a terrestrial species.

Methinks he prefers to clutch at loopy explanations (rather like von Daniken's "Chariots of the Gods") rather than the obvious one... that they were thrown up in sea spray in a storm and carried by winds...
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Old 20-09-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
In the absence of a mechanism by which large particles like these can be transported to the stratosphere
This is probably the important part and will be the main counter argument.
The conclusion does at least make sense and based on current knowledge.
I'd say at this point comparing the guy to von Daniken is a bit harsh although I agree there are other more likely scenarios.
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Old 20-09-2013, 06:06 PM
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Junk science degrading the profession - Occams razor sugests it came from space - what a lot of rot! Not a single meteorologist in the authorship or referenced, and a sampling density of 1. Good grief.
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Old 20-09-2013, 06:56 PM
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So they have met my ex wife then?
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Old 20-09-2013, 06:58 PM
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The isotope ratios from the mass spectrometer analysis should shed light on whether it is alien or terrestrial. I'm betting it is Earthly in nature but lets see the data.
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Old 20-09-2013, 08:23 PM
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Here's the video to go with the story.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/sc...-1226723186041
I'm highly skeptical about it too. Just because he has a bunsen burner, doesn't make him right.
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Old 20-09-2013, 08:37 PM
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So they have met my ex wife then?
I can add a second sample for comparison.
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  #10  
Old 20-09-2013, 09:12 PM
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Damn
When i read this, i thought scientists had finally made it to Frankston.

Andrew
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Old 20-09-2013, 10:23 PM
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Its ok - Halley's going to comment on it to sort this out once and for all (that's what the last sentence says at least )
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Old 21-09-2013, 11:27 AM
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This is a bunch of well-known suspects and their escapades have been the topic of previous threads (perhaps I'll search for them later). The Journal of Cosmology is a sham (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Cosmology) and at least some of the authors have published other widely-discredited claims of extra-terrestial life.

Looking at the present pail of fertilzer we see the whole silk purse revolves around one diatom fragment that is 'certainly' not contamination. That is because the 'control flight' found zero but the real flight found .... (drum roll) ... one fragment. Is that proof that their protocol is effective and the fragment is not contamination or did they just get lucky the first time (or unlucky the second)? I mean if they found 50-100 fragments the argument would be clear but to say the difference between 0 and 1 is significant is drawing a pretty long bow. I also notice that the protocol for examining the stubs was not detailed. A SEM can't see a whole stub at once and so it must be scanned. AFAIK it is unusual to scan the whole stub.

They claim that the diatom could be identified by an expert but failed to get an expert to look at it! Unforgivable. Of all the thousands of experts around the world none would offer even an opinion? Did they ask or are they such untouchables in the scientific community that no experts would go near them? FWIW I don't think it's a Nitzschia. Perhaps it was on the grass that the balloon was lying on as it was inflated. Perhaps it was in settled out of the air as the equipment was readied. (BTW you have inhaled many many diatoms while reading this.) Perhaps it really is possible for a fragment as small as this (I'm guessing about a nanongram) to be lofted to that altitude.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish stargazer View Post
The isotope ratios from the mass spectrometer analysis should shed light on whether it is alien or terrestrial. I'm betting it is Earthly in nature but lets see the data.
John, I'm afraid I can't find the reference to isotope ratios but I am intensely interested. Can you point it out to me?

My day job is running an IRMS so this is an area I could really get my teeth into. I commonly analyse carbonates, which are much easier to work with than the silica of a diatom, and I can do samples probably as small as anyone in Australia can do. On a good day with a tail wind I can get good results on 15 micrograms of material. Their fragment is about 10,000x smaller than this and it is presently covered in gold. I hope the technician enjoys a challenge.
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Old 21-09-2013, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AstralTraveller View Post



John, I'm afraid I can't find the reference to isotope ratios but I am intensely interested. Can you point it out to me?
Here is one reference I Googled. Quite a bit of literature on oxygen isotopes and ET

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002AGUFM.P52B..05B

The authors are "probably" referring to carbon isotope ratios to see if they are similar to that found on Earth (but I'm no expert).
I'm amazed the paper got through the referee process without some analytical data to back it up.

Last edited by Irish stargazer; 21-09-2013 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 21-09-2013, 05:44 PM
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I can see several possibilities on this. Also it raises questions.

If this biological material is floating down from space, then I'd expect the Earth's surface to be "contaminated" with it.

Curiosity has so far not detected anything similar. That is curios to me. Particularly because the rover is designed to search for that kind of material. Mars is not that distant in comparison to the mission of a comet.

Is it possible that the material originated on Earth and has managed to hitch a ride on comets.

If it did come from a dirty snow ball, did it start from the comet or somewhere else? And what is that somewhere else?
Apart from perhaps Mars there is not much else where alien life could start from. "Alien visitors"???

I agree with the majority of the posts. I am observing at the moment and I would like to see it to be a first. Wouldn't that rock the creationists' theory? I shouldn't call it a theory, a theory has some substance to it.

Cheers
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Old 21-09-2013, 06:42 PM
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Marty,

If you could put up a spacecraft with a trap having a small area for just a few seconds, and find these, if it were of extraterrestrial origin the moon and mars would also be covered in them.

In particular the lunar regolith has been undisturbed for billions of years and should by this time be millimetres deep in diatoms, yet the samples brought back by Apollo show no sign.

In this sense the lunar regolith is a perfect trap to record the history of the extraterrestrial material raining down.

Bleeding obvious that the claim is rubbish.
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  #16  
Old 21-09-2013, 08:10 PM
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Major claims need irrefutable self consistent evidence.

Bert
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Old 21-09-2013, 08:47 PM
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Better get out Fred Hoyles books "diseases from space " and "evolution from space" where he puts forward very convincing scientific evidence for life originating in space. He is not a crank but a respected astrophysicist who coined the expression "big bang theory " for the present theory of cosmic evolution that conflicted with his steady state theory. Both books are worth a read despite the former book being 34 years old .
Philip
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Old 22-09-2013, 12:15 AM
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He is not a crank but a respected astrophysicist
Actually, Fred Hoyle was both! A rare feat
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Old 22-09-2013, 09:37 AM
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Whoops , forgot to say that those books were coauthored with N.C.Wickramasinghe another respected Astrophysicist. Interestingly the times literary supplement commented on the book when it was published saying " When two extremely distinguished astronomers cogitate upon the origin of life in the solar system we should not ignore their conclusions. Entertaining and stimulating". If your interested In this subject they are a good read! Fred Hoyle also wrote many well known science fiction novels , the best known was serialized by the BBC in the 60's , " A for Andromeda" . This story must have led to the ideas used in the movies "species" and "first contact"
Philip
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Old 22-09-2013, 09:49 AM
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Hi Wavytone,
I agree. I only scratched the surface of the number of possibilities. You caught on to more and the whole issue smacks of sensationalism.

Cheers
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