F1 - Malaysia Qualifying ONE HD 18:30 AEDT 23 Mar 2013

[gary]

Qualifying for the Malaysian Grand Prix airs this coming Saturday 23 March at 18:30 AEDT
on ONE HD.

Note that race live coverage will also take place on ONE HD on Sunday starting at
18:30 AEDT.

(A delayed broadcast will be aired on TEN at 22:30 AEDT).

In P1, Mark Webber lead the way with a 1:36.935, narrowly ahead of Kimi Raikkonen
on a 1:37.003.

Note that the new hard compound tyres Pirelli have brought to Sepang are now
marked orange rather than silver and they will be used in conjunction with the
white marked medium compound tyres.

Storms are forecast for Fri, Sat and Sunday with highs in the low 30's.

[04Stefan07 (Stefan)]

Won't be able to watch this til i get home tomorrow. I have a wedding tomorrow all day.

My brother has his own tipping site if you would like to be apart of it. Just need to make an account and enter your tips!

http://www.f1tips.byethost3.com/

The deadline for this weeks race tips are closed but you can enter for the next race!

[gary]

Sydney Morning Herald reporting today that Flavio Briatore says that Vettel
and Webber will not stay together at Red Bull beyond this season.

Originally Posted by SMH

Asked if he expected either Vettel or Webber to leave Red Bull at the end of this year's campaign, the Italian replied: "For sure. Last year already there were problems."

Story here -
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...#ixzz2OhRsEHAx

[multiweb (Marc)]

Probably missing the point but was there any logic in red bull's team order to tell Vettel to slow down. I understand that from a team point of view having two cars in pole battling is a potential risk of losing them both but they are racers after all. It's built in their DNA. They want to win. Fair enough he copes some flack for disobeying a direct 'order' but c'mon. He's faster and he wants to win.

There were similar incidents between Prost and Senna in the 90s. Remember when Senna took both cars out of the race on the first turn after the grid? That's how it works.

[gary]

Originally Posted by multiweb

Probably missing the point but was there any logic in red bull's team order to tell Vettel to slow down. I understand that from a team point of view having two cars in pole battling is a potential risk of losing them both but they are racers after all. It's built in their DNA. They want to win. Fair enough he copes some flack for disobeying a direct 'order' but c'mon. He's faster and he wants to win.

There were similar incidents between Prost and Senna in the 90s. Remember when Senna took both cars out of the race on the first turn after the grid? That's how it works.

Hi Marc,

The 'team orders' concept is of course very controversial and not always popular
with fans and drivers.

As for the logic in this instance, Vettel himself reported that he "messed up"
and that "in the past in such a situation we tended to fight, but these days
with the tyre situation - not knowing how long they would last - it was an
extremely big risk that could have resulted in both of us being out of
the race and not finishing 1-2. Fights like that are huge risks for the tyres
these days - we both could have ruined them within two to three laps."

I am not sure how closely you have been following it, but this seasons
new Pirelli tyres are once again very controversial and teams such as Red Bull
have been lobbying hard behind the scenes to have them return to the 2012
tyres.

Specifically, commentators have noted that with the Red Bull's huge downforce,
it can go through the new Pirelli's very quickly and with limited experience in using them
and with Malaysia's extreme conditions, but with the race in the bag, the support
team had ordered them to turn down their engines and maintain positions
so they could ensure to get the cars home.

Vettel said, "The main lesson for me today was that I should have acted
differently. We talk about such things, sure, but I wasn't really aware of it in the
race as otherwise I wouldn't have taken on so much risk. When I took off
my helmet and saw that Mark didn't look too happy I talked to him and he came
straight to the point. That was when it struck me like lightning. I cannot say that
I am proud right now.

He went onto say, "It will not be easy to sleep tonight" and has apologized to Mark.

So technically, as far as Red Bull were concerned, the computers had determined
Mark had won the race and they simply needed to watch the tyres, not strain the engines (limit of
eight per season) and get the cars home. So Mark did precisely what the team
instructed both of them. But Vettel said he "put himself above the decision", which he acknowledges
was a big mistake.

Vettel was only faster because Mark obeyed the support team's instructions to slow down and
Vettel decided otherwise. Earlier on, for example, on the lap where Vettel said, "Get Mark out of the way,
he is going too slow", I was watching the timing carefully and Webber was going even faster than
he was on that lap.

The drivers and crew race as a team. If an order comes over the radio and
you can't trust the team anymore, then the relationship is over.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Thanks for the clarification Gary. It makes sense now.

[AndrewJ]

He went onto say, "It will not be easy to sleep tonight"

Betcha he slept like a baby

Sorry but i dont really believe a word he said,
and he would probably need to be careful next time he gets alongside Webber, or he may end up in a fence.
That said, it did turn the std high speed game of "chasey" into an interesting tussle for once.

Andrew

PS just for info, do you reckon he would have caught up to Webber if Webber had left his car at full pace settings, instead of slowing down as ordered????

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Betcha he slept like a baby

Sorry but i dont really believe a word he said,
and he would probably need to be careful next time he gets alongside Webber, or he may end up in a fence.
That said, it did turn the std high speed game of "chasey" into an interesting tussle for once.

Andrew

PS just for info, do you reckon he would have caught up to Webber if Webber had left his car at full pace settings, instead of slowing down as ordered????

I think it too it is very hard to believe that Vettel wasn't aware of the tyre problem if Webber was but he had something to say to try to justify his actions although he could have found a better excuse. But what's left so say anyway.

I don't believe Webber let him pass him that easily either so still the best man won regardless. If Webber won maybe this wouldn't have hit the news that hard with the current Vettel bashing.

[gary]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

PS just for info, do you reckon he would have caught up to Webber if Webber had left his car at full pace settings, instead of slowing down as ordered????

Of course in some alternate scenario anything could have happened in the final part of
the race that may have still not ensured Mark would win. For example, there
are lots of new drivers this year and all it might take is for one being lapped not
to get quickly enough out of the way.

During the race itself I had a notebook open with the online timing plus the
F1 2013 timing app running on the smartphone which includes additional
streaming data such as each car's position on the track and then another eye
fixed to the TV screen. On what I was seeing, it would have been unlikely for
Vettel to catch him and if anything Mark appeared as if he would only increase
the lead. The live timing app allows you to replay the timing data and car positions
for every practice and qualifying session and for every race and it would be interesting
to go back and look at it again. Based on what I was seeing at the time,
I would not have been surprised if the order to turn the engin's down
came in some time before Mark's last pit stop.

He was pacing the race well and the Red Bull computers that access all
the car's parameters and timing no doubt gave them an even clearer
prediction that Mark could essentially win it at that point even if he had one hand
tied behind his back.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Well then the deed is done and by the sound of it in your explanations then Vettel has it all wrong. Do you have a live feed to red bull's racing team as well?

[gary]

Originally Posted by multiweb

I don't believe Webber let him pass him that easily either so still the best man won regardless.

Hi Marc,

I politely disagree and by all accounts, Vettel himself would disagree as well.

The indications are that the opportunity for the tussle between the two of them
only came up because Webber had turned the engine down, as instructed by the
team which gave Vettel the chance to catch him.

They would have been happy then for Vettel to just cover his rear and they
would have increased the pace if the Mercedes had become a threat.

So faced with the same situation, what is one to do? You have a significant lead
over your team mate which parameters indicate you are only likey to increase,
you are told the race is yours and that you should both back off the pace.
You slow and let your let team mate cover your rear.
Next moment, you find he is wanting to race you, despite what you have been
both instructed to do by the people that write your pay cheques.

Well then the deed is done and by the sound of it in your explanations then Vettel has it all wrong. Do you have a live feed to red bull's racing team as well?

Only wish I did

But you can read more of the Vettel interview here on the F1 site in the article "Sebastian Vettel Q&A: I shouldn't have passed Mark".
http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...3/3/14412.html

It will be clearly controversial this season, but as you have noted, the history of
F1 is chequered by such dramas.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by gary

Hi Marc,

I politely disagree and by all accounts, Vettel himself would disagree as well.

The indications are that the opportunity for the tussle between the two of them
only came up because Webber had turned the engine down, as instructed by the
team which gave Vettel the chance to catch him.

They would have been happy then for Vettel to just cover his rear and they
would have increased the pace if the Mercedes had become a threat.

So faced with the same situation, what is one to do? You have a significant lead
over your team mate which parameters indicate you are only likey to increase,
you are told the race is yours and that you should both back off the pace.
You slow and let your let team mate cover your rear.
Next moment, you find he is wanting to race you, despite what you have been
both instructed to do by the people that write your pay cheques.



Only wish I did

But you can read more of the Vettel interview here on the F1 site in the article "Sebastian Vettel Q&A: I shouldn't have passed Mark".
http://www.formula1.com/news/intervi...3/3/14412.html

It will be clearly controversial this season, but as you have noted, the history of
F1 is chequered by such dramas.

Totally agree now I've read your previous near realtime lap times analysis.

[MrB (Simon)]

Originally Posted by gary

Vettel was only faster because Mark obeyed the support team's instructions to slow down and Vettel decided otherwise.

Earlier on, for example, on the lap where Vettel said, "Get Mark out of the way, he is going too slow", I was watching the timing carefully and Webber was going even faster than he was on that lap.

Don't forget that the radio feeds we get are very delayed. I have heard the commentators mention a number of times over the years that they could have even been said laps ago.
I don't recall, but did Vettel claim Mark was too slow before or after they were advised to detune?

Originally Posted by multiweb

I don't believe Webber let him pass him that easily either so still the best man won regardless. If Webber won maybe this wouldn't have hit the news that hard with the current Vettel bashing.

Yes, Webber made his car as wide as he could without risking a penalty, but was Vettel the best man for eventually getting around him? I don't believe so, because Webber's car would still have been dialed down. If they were both dialed up, or both dialed down, then yes I would agree.
If Webber had dialed up again to defend, then he is no better than Vettel. I believe Mark would have stuck to team orders even while defending.

It would be interesting if there were only single car teams, and no two teams owned by one parent company/entity (eg Red Bull/Toro Rosso), that would largely eliminate team order problems and driver favouritism.
Sadly tho it's not a realistic option due to the low number of outfits able to participate at a competitive level.

[AndrewJ]

It would be interesting if there were only single car teams,

What i reckon would make it more fun is if DRS was handled differently,
as it almost makes it impossible to defend when in front.

I reckon DRS should be allowed for ANY car at any time within the DRS regions, BUT, like tyres you only get limited usage, say 10 times per race.
Thus, its up to the driver to decide when its best to use it,
and the frontrunner can use it to protect their lead if desired,
vs just get blasted out of the game.
Vettel would have been in real trouble without DRS.

Would make the mind games of when to use and when to save a whole lot more fun.

Andrew

[gary]

Another article on the incident in the Sydney Morning Herald today.

Originally Posted by Sydney Morning Herald quoting Christian Horner

"It was the intent of the team that Mark win that race," Horner said. "We didn't suddenly give Sebastian instruction and say: 'Go and pass your teammate.'

"He (Webber) is big enough to know there was no malice or intent from the team to create any situation like that.

"He is in a car capable of winning grands prix, and hopefully going for a championship, so I've no doubt Mark will see out the season with us."

Originally Posted by Sydney Morning Herald

Horner also revealed that Vettel visited the Red Bull factory in Milton Keynes, central England earlier this week to apologise for his conduct.

"He's accepted what he did was wrong, but that he can't turn back the clock," Horner told Sky Sports News.

"He has apologised to the team, apologised to every single member of staff for his actions, because he recognises the team is vitally important, and being part of a team is a crucial aspect of being able to challenge for those championships."

Helmund Marko is quoted as saying they had told Vettel to hold position.

He claims the two drivers have shaken hands and that "for us now the issue
is settled."

Article here -
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorspo...#ixzz2OsZO4VYL

Round three in China takes place on the weekend of the 13th - 14th April.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Next race is sure going to be very interesting.