Speed doesn't kill - Page 7

Miaplacidus (Brian) · #**121** 10-03-2010, 11:44 PM

Part of the problem I have with this topic is that people are obviously talking their own book. They are arguing (rather vociferously, sometimes) for raised speed limits mainly because they want to drive faster themselves. Frankly, I don't care if no one ever travels above 80.

As for the speciousness or otherwise of "Speed Kills", it is clearly obvious that all things being equal, speed increases the risk of fatal crashes. Sure, you can off-set that risk with better cars and better roads and better driving skills, and might reasonably consider elevating the limit under those pre-conditions (just as the Germans have done recently and, let's face, as all countries have done over the past 100 years). Nonetheless, you won't persuade anyone that all these improvements combined with slower speed limits aren't even more safe. On a cost-benefit analysis, I'd rather have my tax-payer's dollars go to benefit more members of society than those few with high-performance vehicles. I'd happily just upgrade the roads with lowered speed limit signs (except for the Midland Hwy here, which is a death-trap even at 80).

As for the reductio ad absurdum that 0 is the safest speed, that is obviously true but would only hold water as a legitimate argument if the speed-risk relationship was linear. It isn't. There is an optimum speed, above which the risk of death increases exponentially. Of course, it is true that we willingly accept that some people are going to die. That is a given. What we are arguing about is what constitutes acceptable risk. Phrased like that, you can see that many people can legitimately hold quite different opinions. Perhaps the law merely reflects the societal mean of those opinions.

(Sorry if this all sounds unduly socialist or spoils your day. Feel free to tail-gate your objection to the back of the next slow-moving convoy. Otherwise I'll look forward to some lovely postcards from Baden-Baden...)

telemarker (Keith) · #**122** 10-03-2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

But, to be blunt, if you can't tell the difference between an M16 and Toyota you still have some personal issues to resolve....

THAT is a pretty lame response.

Peter Ward · #**123** 10-03-2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telemarker

THAT is a pretty lame response.

Oh good grief, ..... "cars are weapons"???

What happened was a tragedy, to be sure. But a statement like the above
does nothing for a rational debate here.

telemarker (Keith) · #**124** 11-03-2010, 12:00 AM

Truely sensitive, not.

Peter Ward · #**125** 11-03-2010, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miaplacidus

all things being equal, speed increases the risk of fatal crashes.

Why do you say this? The German paradygm clearly shows this to be false.

Crash rates are lower on Autobahns. This is fact.

As to whether Oz wants to spend some serious money on a similar national road & licensing system is probably a matter for another debate....

I must admit I'm close to closing the thread.....which was opened with a report by a leading expert saying in effect, we have a few things to learn.

It would seem government sponsored marketing (they called it propergander some time ago) wins over critical thought...

Peter Ward · #**126** 11-03-2010, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by telemarker

Truely sensitive, not.

No it was not. Cars are not weapons. I'll leave it at that.

Miaplacidus (Brian) · #**127** 11-03-2010, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Why do you say this? ... Crash rates are lower on Autobahns. This is fact.

Oh, I'm not disputing that, Peter. But are you also saying that fatal crash rates on Autobahns would not be even lower if the cars on them were forced to travel at slower speeds? (Sorry if I misunderstood.) I can accept that someone might not think it worth the extra lives saved, really I can, if it didn't amount to many, but I would be surprised if you denied that no one would be saved. (You see, then it would come down to how much we valued those extra saved lives.)

Anyway, cheer up, you look sad.

Regards,

Brian.

PS If slowing down those cars on the Autobahn didn't save a few lives I might have to reconsider my opinion of the Germans!

Roobi · #**128** 11-03-2010, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

No it was not. Cars are not weapons. I'll leave it at that.

I'm sorry but you must be a moron..... any single thing that can kill is a weapon. Hence a car in the wrong hands=weapon.... and how dare you say what happened was a just a tradgedy. It was some stupid idiots bloody fault and manslaughter at that. How can you not say that a car is a weapon.
You must think guns are fine too huh?
You sir are an insensitive idiot!!

Bottom line, if you break the law, you should pay for it, and expect to pay for it at that. If a police officer stops a single person who is speeding 5 kms over the speed limit, who may very well have gone on, if not stopped, to increase their speed even more and then crash killing people, would you rather they have been caught, or say "oh geez it was only 5 kms over the limit".

If the police save only one life by booking people speeding, Isn't it worth it.

taminga16 (Greg) · #**129** 11-03-2010, 03:29 AM

I feel sure Gentlemen that this must be time.

Greg.

GrampianStars (Rob) · #**130** 11-03-2010, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

..... Cars are not weapons......

AGREED and I have a RIGHT to drive on MY TAX funded roads and drive as I like to drive, FAST.

Road Laws are for REVENUE raising for the dumb panicky ignorant city folk who drive about:-
texting, eating, shaving, putting on makeup, having sex, etc, etc,.

Road Laws are especially for the slow and erratic lane changing moron drivers,
who with deliberate intention put their vehicles in my way to hinder and obstruct my progress.
I would like to push them off the road for good

It is 2010 not the horse and cart 1800's
If you cant keep up keep off!

Roobi · #**131** 11-03-2010, 08:30 AM

well there we go. Just another moron who kills on our roads and think theyre invincible.

please someone close this thread im sick of seeing how disgusting some peoples thoughts are on this matter. This is why people die, idiots that think its theyre RIGHT to drive as fast as they like, and want to push people off the road. How disheartening, to say the least.

Jeffkop (Jeff) · #**132** 11-03-2010, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrampianStars

AGREED and I have a RIGHT to drive on MY TAX funded roads and drive as I like to drive, FAST.

Road Laws are for REVENUE raising for the dumb panicky ignorant city folk who drive about:-
texting, eating, shaving, putting on makeup, having sex, etc, etc,.

Road Laws are especially for the slow and erratic lane changing moron drivers,
who with deliberate intention put their vehicles in my way to hinder and obstruct my progress.
I would like to push them off the road for good

It is 2010 not the horse and cart 1800's
If you cant keep up keep off!

... ROFLMAO Why beat around the bush Rob ... just tell us what ya really think.

iceman (Mike) · #**133** 11-03-2010, 08:55 AM

Well this took a turn for the worse didn't it.

Locking.