Speed doesn't kill - Page 6

desler · #**101** 10-03-2010, 03:38 PM

For a start,

Victorian Government has no say in federally mandated ADR's.

The ADR's state +or- 10k at 100 kilo. As for the your change to the ADR's, I haven't looked at any changes but as a professional driver I have never driven a vehicle that was doing more than 100 when the speedo shows 100, normally in the 92 to 96 range, but that's another story. I can tell you however, that a little research would of provided you with the information that if that was your daughters first transgression with a 12 month period in Victoria, she, like all people are entitled to a warning!

But thanks very much for the donation.

If it's not her first transgression, well, so be it. The difference is that you said booked doing three K's over the limit.

No she wasn't , Simple as that!

I'd also liked to get adopted by a family who'd pay my fines!!!!!
Do you also take the demerit points?

Darren

Nesti (Mark) · #**102** 10-03-2010, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Planet Oz is around 4,000km wide...it takes a good deal of time to traverse this land at speeds more suitable for model-T Fords.

We really need to come out of the automotive dark ages, and recognise the fact that, on the right road, many vehicles are very safe at autobahn speeds. Crawling in the right lane does bugger up traffic flow and
forcing cars into same speed clusters needlessly increases traffic density and the risk of an accident.

The Autobahn doesn't have Kangaroos. We have 100x more km's of asphalt than what the Germans have, we can't elevate roads or even fence them off.

I would agree on in the case of metro Freeways.

Nesti (Mark) · #**103** 10-03-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by multiweb

... and don't forget that one: everyone eating their greens and veggies eventually die.

... so it's not good for you either.

LOL, and Oxygen is highly corrosive, DON'T ANYONE BREATHE!!!!!

Outbackmanyep · #**104** 10-03-2010, 03:46 PM

I'd like to add a point, in regards to speedo tolerances and misreads, tyres make a hell of a difference too, especially in 4wd vehicles, where different brands of tyre have different rolling diameters and different speedo readings as a result! This will also affect odometer readings.

As for speed limits, i reckon we need more overtaking lanes, not reduce or increase limits.
I don't care how good a driver you think you are accidents can still happen and ruin everyone's day, fatigue is also serious issue.
What about Stop revive Survive?? I heard that if you stop and eat/drink something it actually slows your metabolism and makes you even more tired.

Peter Ward · #**105** 10-03-2010, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nesti

LOL, and Oxygen is highly corrosive, DON'T ANYONE BREATHE!!!!!

Acually....according to Lovelock, breathing O2 is why we get Cancers....unfortunately there are no alternatives

Peter Ward · #**106** 10-03-2010, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

If it's not her first transgression, well, so be it. The difference is that you said booked doing three K's over the limit.

The infringement notice said: Detected speed, 106k/hr.

Alleged speed 103km/hr....ie the speed she was being booked for, (and what they'd be putting to the Magistrate if you were to bother the courts)......all in a vehicle (1996 BMW) that has a speedo mandated to only be good to +/-10%.

No revenue raising going on down there.....

.....I'm amazed the Vic's put up with it.

taminga16 (Greg) · #**107** 10-03-2010, 04:53 PM

A point to consider is that Germany has a road and traffic system that will support faster travel and more vehicles Australia has no such system, goodness we cannot even settle on the colour of road markings from state to state, There is no standard for the placement signage or consideration of each and every road user, Every time a new sign is installed it is attached to yet another post (more stuff to hit). As an example I pay a $50.00 per year 'Safety Levy' above the CTP component on my motorcycle Reg, this Tax is then spent on improving 'Motorcycle Blackspots', one such Blackspot on the Warrandyte/Ringwood Road in Warrandyte received a treatment recently that included improving the shoulders of the road, the installation of clearer road edge markings and corner marking, as soon as the works were finished the Local Council declared the improved shoulders parking areas and installed parking signs indicating same, Vic Roads have since informed me that it is beyond their control. We need A SYSTEM first!

Greg.

P.S. On another note, In an earlier post someone made mention of time over distance whilst driving, A QUESTION FOR ALL, HOW FAR DOES ONE TRAVEL EVERY SECOND AT 60klm/hour, and why did you have to Google the answer?

Nesti (Mark) · #**108** 10-03-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taminga16

P.S. On another note, In an earlier post someone made mention of time over distance whilst driving, A QUESTION FOR ALL, HOW FAR DOES ONE TRAVEL EVERY SECOND AT 60klm/hour, and why did you have to Google the answer?

16.66. meters.

I cheated, I used my calculator as my math isn't quite that good...but why should I know that? Please don't say that it's important for safer driving...it's just a number, and I don't know anyone who can estimate distances accurately.

taminga16 (Greg) · #**109** 10-03-2010, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nesti

16.66. meters.

I cheated, I used my calculator as my math isn't quite that good...but why should I know that? Please don't say that it's important for safer driving...it's just a number, and I don't know anyone who can estimate distances accurately.

My point was that as drivers we should be focussing on VMG and not speed, add that to the fact that Joe average takes about 1.5 seconds to react and then it is important. There would not be too many of us that did not have a tape measure, or who may have wondered about the distance between white lines on the road, who have an idea of the width of the average house block or who have never stood at the end of a 22 metre cricket pitch! Speed is not the issue, it is what we do with it.

Greg.

rat156 · #**110** 10-03-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

No-ones saying outright that speed Kills.

No they do, several people here have repeated the mantra "Speed Kills".

That's what the slogan is and some people can't seem to understand that it means excessive speed may cause an accident.

Cheers
Stuart

rat156 · #**111** 10-03-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miaplacidus

Fair enough. I don't want to share the road with these people either. But what about all those skilled and coordinated drivers who simply do not want to drive at the speed limit? Such people exist, who enjoy driving just as much as the next person, but at a slower speed. Who is going to be so arrogant as to say they shouldn't be allowed on the very roads they pay taxes to maintain? As far as I am aware, there is no law saying everyone must travel as close to the speed limit as practical. (I might be tempted to point out that people driving fast are more likely to be stupid and uncoordinated.)

OK, but don't then enforce your rate of speed on me. People do this all the time, by traveling in the RH lane at "their" speed, oblivious to the train of cars behind them. Worse still are the "I have to be in front of you" drivers that for some reason have to be in front, then when they get there slow down? I have a very good cruise control, which at most varies by 2kmh on a downhill run, on the Hume on the way either to or from Winton there are usually dozens of drivers like this, they overtake me then slow down, so I have to overtake them, whence they speed up again. I usually just drop back 500 or so metres, then they give up and disappear. Does anyone know what they're doing? I know my car is nice to look at, but I'm not, particularly when I'm peed off by one of these idiots.

You may have been tempted to point out "that people driving fast are more likely to be stupid and uncoordinated", in fact you did, just by writing it down (did I type that out loud?). I might point you to another thread where unsupported inuendo should not be posted, but I can't be bothered. If you're going to accuse someone of something then do so, but be sure to have some sort of proof is all I ask.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miaplacidus

What about the foot path? Do you just push past the dawdlers and tell them they shouldn't be out unless they walk at a "reasonable" pace? Who is to say who is "out of step"?

Not on the footpath, but I detest people in shopping centres who dawdle or walk diagonally across the paths. This may stem from an intense hatred of shopping in shopping centres though, but it does really annoy me.

Cheers
Stuart

desler · #**112** 10-03-2010, 05:39 PM

Stuart,

I will finish off my participation in this thread and going to Snake Valley with your right, some do say it.

The same as they say lots of other things. The point is the speed limit in our system is the speed limit! The advertising for the masses is Speed Kills.

I don't know how marketable "speed kills in certain circumstances" would play on the local radio station, but marketing is not really my thing.

Anyway, get some rest we have good skies and weather coming so lets just get out under the stars and do what we enjoy!

Darren

rat156 · #**113** 10-03-2010, 06:10 PM

[QUOTE=desler;568209]Who says they only fixate on speed?

The television commercials?

Lets look at some of the other marketing:

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

Buckle up and live.

Excellent, but not seen anymore. TAC website only lists 5 phases of campaign, but also only lists from 1992

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

Drink drive, you're a bloody idiot!

Again excellent, now combined with the drugs message. Has had 25 phases of advertising since 1989. Particularly successful these two must have saved the majority of the lives you mention below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

Look Bike!

Only if you want to target them! (that thread is now closed I think). Small presence on the small screen, but worthwhile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

Secure your load!

Don't remember too many ad campaigns featuring this, a few signs on the road is all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

Drug driving!

Again excellent, now combined with the drink driving ones. Has had five phases of advertising

But you forgot

"Speed Kills", which is not listed on the TAC website, don't know why.
"Wipe Off 5" which has gone through 11 phases in 8 years (take that out to 20 years would be 27.5, so about equal to that of drink driving.

But the Speed Kills campaign is the enforced to a higher degree, although if someone could design a fixed alcohol camera then that would almost certainly change.

No one has said that excessive speed doesn't kill, but the couple of k's you get booked for is revenue raising, not safety related. If they were serious about it they'd up the points penalty and drop the fine. Make it so that if you get two speeding fines in 12 months you're walking for the next six. Then everyone will slow down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by desler

In 1970 there were about 5 Million registered cars in Australia.
There were 3,798 road fatalities or 30.4 deaths per 100,000.

In 2003 there were about 13.5 million registered cars.
There were 1,633 road fatalities or about 8.2 deaths per 100,000.

A dramatic decrease! Some argue, like unemployment statistics in Economics that there is a natural rate of deaths / serious injury per 100,000 users. The real question is what is that natural rate. And given the data over the last 33 years, Most people would say we should continue to do what we've been doing.

Road quality and in particular engineering improvements together with seatbelts and getting drunks off the road are probably the highest contributing factors here. Are there an stats for the number of collisions? If that had dropped significantly after the introduction of speed cameras then I might be tempted to believe it has some effect.

Lastly from the TAC's website "February 2008: Set Agenda – establishing speeding as socially and morally unacceptable as drink driving within the Victorian community."

Need I say more? Yep one word, bollocks!

Cheers
Stuart

multiweb (Marc) · #**114** 10-03-2010, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Acually....according to Lovelock, breathing O2 is why we get Cancers....unfortunately there are no alternatives

Bummer!.... that's it! I'm taking up smoking again.

Jeffkop (Jeff) · #**115** 10-03-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rat156

If they were serious about it they'd up the points penalty and drop the fine. Make it so that if you get two speeding fines in 12 months you're walking for the next six. Then everyone will slow down.

Cant have the all the worker ants not being able to get to work ... that would totally stuff the Fat Cats system in so many dimensions !!!!

pgc hunter · #**116** 10-03-2010, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Acually....according to Lovelock, breathing O2 is why we get Cancers....unfortunately there are no alternatives

OMG quick ban breathing in the name of "saving lives"!

Goodness, Kevin Rudd and the rest of the bubble wrap mob would be having a field day with the ideas from this thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by rat156

"Speed Kills", which is not listed on the TAC website, don't know why.
"Wipe Off 5" which has gone through 11 phases in 8 years (take that out to 20 years would be 27.5, so about equal to that of drink driving.

But the Speed Kills campaign is the enforced to a higher degree, although if someone could design a fixed alcohol camera then that would almost certainly change.

Cheers
Stuart

That wipe off 5 propaganda is so huge here in Brackswards Victoria, it is equivalent to having Kim Jong Ill's face being pasted everywhere...driving to Renmark earlier in the year I saw those signs all over the place.

Everytime I see a wipe of 5 sign, I wipe on 10.

Peter Ward · #**117** 10-03-2010, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rat156

....... from the TAC's website "February 2008: Set Agenda – establishing speeding as socially and morally unacceptable as drink driving within the Victorian community."
.......

Ouch! That is really scary.

So some prat in an TAC office, decrees "we'll place a 50km/hr sign there" (it was 70km/hr the week before, but someone complained about the noisy trucks) ....and if you simply don't see it, but are otherwise driving very responsibly, you are in the same bin as someone who drinks themselves into a stupor, and decides to drive home.

We are the experts, and know how fast you should be able to travel!

Yep. Bollocks!!!....

Miaplacidus (Brian) · #**118** 10-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Hi Stuart,

Unfortunately, I live in Tassie, where we don't have any RH lanes to speak of. Rest assured, if ever there is a left hand lane, that's usually where I'll be. My main complaint is with all those numerous speeding and, yes, stupid drivers who endanger lives by ramming up my tail just because they want me to drive at an unsafe — and often illegal — speed, and who don't have a right hand lane to move into. This sample is incredibly large here, and although not necessarily reflective of what happens on the mainland, I suspect it is. So you might have to excuse the bias. Or perhaps not. But nonetheless it is these idiots who I think of when I hear arguments in favour of lifting the speed limit.

But I know that you would say that this is irrelevant to the argument that we should have autobahns and better cars and stricter controls on who actually drives them. And you're right, and if our society was comported differently I would definitely agree. Really, I would. It's just that I don't believe they'll ever outlaw stupidity, or overcome the fact that in this bogan democracy poor people are going to insist on the "right" to drive dubious vehicles on inappropriate roads at top speed across this wide, brown land. There's no other way to say it: we're just not German enough, and all the wishful thinking in the world isn't going to change it.

(I'm absolutely sure that this behaviour, albeit common, is not what Peter had in mind when he started this thread, so I guess I'm now severely off topic... Mea culpa.)

Separately, a lot of cynical and disparaging stuff has been written about governments and their motives for imposing restrictions. This is very unfair to the many hundreds of Australians who have worked hard to research all the factors involved in road deaths and to develop policies to lower the road toll. They don't get any sort of kick-back from road fines, you know.

Live long and prosper.

Roobi · #**119** 10-03-2010, 10:57 PM

As having lost a family member due to drink driving and speeding, I am appauled by the majority of responses on this thread.... Can't you people see that cars are weapons, not toys and can someone seriously say "Oh whoops, sorry i didn't see that speed sign" What an absolute pile of.... The laws are there for a reason and you don't have a leg to stand on if its your own complacency that makes you break that law. If you get caught, you pay for it and be damned well thankful you didn't pay for it in a much worse way. Don't drink and drive, don't speed, follow the road rules and for christs sake don't think your immortal. Even if you think you bloody well are, the family you crash into and kill, certainly isn't. Everone seems to have this stupid thought that 'nah it'l never happen to me' but guess what, i know from experience it really really does. Someone please close this thread. It's disturbing to read the lax opinions out there.

Peter Ward · #**120** 10-03-2010, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roobi

Can't you people see that cars are weapons,

Sorry for your loss. The German model has zero tolerance for (drunk) idiots that cause such grief...that person would be doing time.

But, to be blunt, if you can't tell the difference between an M16 and Toyota you still have some personal issues to resolve....