Can't believe what I saw on the train tonight...

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by DavidU

I for one respect Stuarts point of view, no problem at all.

I also respect Stuarts point of view.

[Starless (Brian)]

I definatley prefer to have Stuart's point of view than sharia.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Hi Hans,

I accept that people have opinions that differ from my own, I just don't agree with them.

I think that this will be the fifth time I've said this, my distaste was levelled at the posts which were advocating violence as a solution to the problem. Initially, at least, my posts were not about the actions which initiated the thread.

I have apologised to the two people whose posts I misinterpreted. I have never received an apology from anyone on this forum for any abuse I have received, (save for one individual, the conversation was at a PM level) from this thread or any other, nor do I expect one.

My first contribution to this thread stated that I was disgusted at the opinions being aired. This opinion hasn't changed. I don't see that having a different opinion is disrespectful.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

I am not attacking your views just your chosen method of expressing them in your first post to this thread. I thought possibly you had let your emotions guide your response particularly when you challenged the moderators to close the thread. If you felt that strongly about what was being expressed you could have clicked the red X and put in a complaint direct to the moderators.

On another note did anyone see the story on ACA about a pregnant woman on a Sydney train I think whom simply asked another woman to remove her bag from the seat so she could sit down. She received a tirade of abuse from this woman for her request. Luckily in this instant other passengers came to her defence.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by rat156

As part of SOTG I am not at liberty to say what I did at pre-deployment training other than that which is conducted at Randwick Barracks, three days of death by Powerpoint, followed by two days of weapons testing, with a little bit of CBC training thrown in.

The incountry RSOI is very similar for conventional forces.

I don't want to discuss my personal finances over the internet.

It sounds like you disbelieve that I'm actually here? If so, please state it clearly and concisely.

Unless you have been here, then I doubt you know ALL the facts. I'm here and I certainly don't.

Stuart

Well it was germany 6 weeks, they were trained to hate the enemy so they wouldn't freeze, it was really a brainwashing and one of my friends hasn't being the same since. It really made me sick to hear what they did and the way he now speaks about afgans. Allowance is about $120 usd a week, this is not income its only just for meals. I do question your statement about being enlisted. I leave it at that, lol next ill be turning into a troll haha

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

Well it was germany 6 weeks, they were trained to hate the enemy so they wouldn't freeze, it was really a brainwashing and one of my friends hasn't being the same since. It really made me sick to hear what they did and the way he now speaks about afgans. Allowance is about $120 usd a week, this is not income its only just for meals. I do question your statement about being enlisted. I leave it at that, lol next ill be turning into a troll haha

And yet you possibly risk getting your cousin and your friends in trouble for discussing this information on an open forum. They were possibly given a security brief which you were not privy to.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

Well it was germany 6 weeks, they were trained to hate the enemy so they wouldn't freeze, it was really a brainwashing and one of my friends hasn't being the same since. It really made me sick to hear what they did and the way he now speaks about afgans. Allowance is about $120 usd a week, this is not income its only just for meals. I do question your statement about being enlisted. I leave it at that, lol next ill be turning into a troll haha

Ah, well, I'm an Australian, so I really can't comment on what the US guys do.

Stuart

[TrevorW]

This has moved away somewhat from the point of the initial post and appears to be attacking Stew.

Regardless of his point of view it's one he is entitled too have like it or not don't disrespect or attack him for what you may consider a misguided point of view.

In all fairness he may have jumped to conclusions based upon emotive responses which possibly would never have eventuated had they been their at the time.

You can only assume how you may react in the heat of the moment but when you are faced with it, you response will no doubt be completely different.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Hi Stuart,

I am not attacking your views just your chosen method of expressing them in your first post to this thread. I thought possibly you had let your emotions guide your response particularly when you challenged the moderators to close the thread. If you felt that strongly about what was being expressed you could have clicked the red X and put in a complaint direct to the moderators.

On another note did anyone see the story on ACA about a pregnant woman on a Sydney train I think whom simply asked another woman to remove her bag from the seat so she could sit down. She received a tirade of abuse from this woman for her request. Luckily in this instant other passengers came to her defence.

Hi Hans,
The mods are monitoring the thread already, one of them (at least) has diverted some ugliness.

I have previously commented on the application of moderation in this forum to, usually, another tirade of abuse.

More recently, the moderation has been excellent, discussions can go on, only the nasty posts are moderated, which seems entirely sensible. So thanks to the mods for that.

Stuart

[rat156]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

This has moved away somewhat from the point of the initial post and appears to be attacking Stew.

Don't worry Trev, I'm big enough and ugly enough to take a verbal lashing or two.

I say let the discussion continue, it seems that a few people actually agree with me.

Stuart or Stew or Stu or even rat156 if you prefer.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

And yet you possibly risk getting your cousin and your friends in trouble for discussing this information on an open forum. They were possibly given a security brief which you were not privy to.

And how are they going to prove that mate? I didnt say i got the pre deployment training info from my cousin did I? I didn't say the names of my my 2 mates. Dam i wish's my wife would stop telling me about this thread haha, you put on your tin foil hat and ill put my troll mask on hahaha.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Ah, well, I'm an Australian, so I really can't comment on what the US guys do.

Stuart

There not US there aussies mate, I'am questioning you being on the line, if thats the lingo, not saying your not apart of the defense force, maybe your a tech or office jocky. They are given US currency which is used for meals as the army does not cater for them, lol my cousin blow all hers on in 1 day when shes first got to one base as they didn't tell her it was meal money.

I do admire your fight against cancer, but believe your wrong about letting the police handle everything and not standing into help someone who is being attacked with fair force. Yes some people have made dumb comments about just hitting people ect but there just blowing off steam and feel outraged like myself. You can't take everything everyone says as what they would do. People really mean escort the problem maker off the train using correct and appropriate force and not throwing them off to cause harm or injury. Thread like this cause to many issues and are the reason this forum should not allow them, deciosions like this should be left to real life and a internet forum where communication isn't broken down.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

And how are they going to prove that mate? I didnt say i got the pre deployment training info from my cousin did I? I didn't say the names of my my 2 mates. Dam i wish's my wife would stop telling me about this thread haha, you put on your tin foil hat and ill put my troll mask on hahaha.

Not sure what the reference to the tin foil hat is to in this particular instant. I was simply stating that if your cousin or friends may have shared some information that you might exercise a bit of caution in what you divulge for their sake. Since I sense a bit of over confidence I will pass this on to Defence Security....they may want to investigate it or they may not bother.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Not sure what the reference to the tin foil hat is to in this particular instant. I was simply stating that if your cousin or friends may have shared some information that you might exercise a bit of caution in what you divulge for their sake. Since I sense a bit of over confidence I will pass this on to Defence Security....they may want to investigate it or they may not bother.

Yer what ever mate, i'am so shaking in my boots, ohh no the mps are coming, mommy help me. Can't wait to see you at the next astro meet and discuss this hans you were telling me all about this at the last astro meet mate remember?

[rat156]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

There not US there aussies mate, I'am questioning you being on the line, if thats the lingo, not saying your not apart of the defense force, maybe your a tech or office jocky. They are given US currency which is used for meals as the army does not cater for them, lol my cousin blow all hers on in 1 day when shes first got to one base as they didn't tell her it was meal money.

Well in TK there is an Aussie mess, at KAF there are several messes which you can eat at free of charge, at BAF it's a similar situation to KAF, at FOBs they have MREs or Ratpacks if they don't have a mess, I can only think of one place where there may not be a mess or DFAC.

I, and all my mates here get paid directly into our bank accounts in $AU, you can get cash from the cash office, but only for stuff from the PX stores or buying stuff from locals, both of which are cheap.

With $125/day (either US or AUD) you would live like a king if you were purchasing food etc.

Unfortunately due to the nature of my work here I can't disclose what I'm actually doing, but you may be surprised.

Originally Posted by 2stroke

I do admire your fight against cancer, but believe your wrong about letting the police handle everything and not standing into help someone who is being attacked with fair force. Yes some people have made dumb comments about just hitting people ect but there just blowing off steam and feel outraged like myself. You can't take everything everyone says as what they would do. People really mean escort the problem maker off the train using correct and appropriate force and not throwing them off to cause harm or injury. Thread like this cause to many issues and are the reason this forum should not allow them, deciosions like this should be left to real life and a internet forum where communication isn't broken down.

In an ideal world, people wouldn't say one one thing and do another. The world is far from ideal. If they "really" meant to do what you describe then perhaps they should have said so and I would have had no cause to have a whinge.

Stuart

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

Yer what ever mate, i'am so shaking in my boots, ohh no the mps are coming, mommy help me. Mate you just made yourself out as the biggest tool ever Can't wait to see you at the next astro meet and discuss this hans you were telling me all about this at the last astro meet mate remember?

How about you grow up. No MP's are coming to kick your door down nor is ASIO going to tap your phone. The most if anything that would come of it is that they emphasise to the troops the security part of the pre-deployment training. That bit at the end where you are trying to elude that I said anything to you at whatever Astro meet is rather plebeian. All I did was ask you to consider your relative and friends before you mouth off on what possibly have been told..if that makes me the biggest tool I will wear that as a badge of honour. You obviously have never served at day in your life in the forces and know nothing of mateship or looking out for your mates or confidentiality...ask your cousin and friends their definitions of these terms.

[Gruffalo]

I'd like to know where 2stroke got these "snippets" of "fact" about training in Germany. US forces, maybe, Aussie forces, NOT. None of my mates went to Germany. My best bud of 30 years has done 2 front line tours now, and he never went near Germany. He did do some spec training in India, but nowhere near Deutschland. I propose that what you were told is shinola - diversion from truth.

You will find a lot of maladjusted US personnel. Most other nations are less brainwashed and actually come back human. The strategies the US forces use to indoctrinate their troops are well known amongst those who know, and are not necessarily applicable to other allied nations.

[zorkon]

Hey! Get back on topic!

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

Have any of you guys seen my pitchfork? I need it for another thread.

Smashing hoedown, by the way. Keep up the good work.

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

I look forward to the special mention this thread will no doubt receive in the next IIS mailout. Everybody will be so proud.

Hey, is that a star...?

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

Yer what ever mate, i'am so shaking in my boots, ohh no the mps are coming, mommy help me. Can't wait to see you at the next astro meet and discuss this hans you were telling me all about this at the last astro meet mate remember?

Two stroke, making snide comments to other's comments makes you look immature. You should be graceful in recognising when you are wrong, as I am. If it is pointed out that my facts are wrong, I simply admit it and am happy to stand corrected, and have done so on a number of occasions on this site.

You are trying to talk from a position of authority when you haven't even walked in those shoes and this just makes you look foolish or like a tool (your word). Until you have walked in those shoes, you know absolutely NOTHING, and furthermore it shows a TOTAL LACK of respect and regard for those that do. They have a difficult job to do, and not one that many are suited for. Yes, war and training does change people, some more than others, and this is sad. Indeed, the need for war is sad.

To talk from a position of authority from what your mates say is mere hearsay which is inadmissible anyway. Given that your friends and relatively may have said something, I doubt very much that they are, or should be, giving you the full facts. If they are, then they are not being very professional, or indeed, you are assuming too much from the little facts they do give you. Most probably because you are accumulating facts from various other sources as well and then trying to pass yourself off as some sort of authority. Or maybe it is just outright BS.

Unfortunately, due to failing the medical, I have never served my country, however, I have personally known many who have through various wars and the one common factor that I have found, most, if not all, do not talk about it, unless they are amongst those that have been there. I have had family who have served and frankly, they will not talk about their experiences, ever. Probably because they would rather just forget, which is something most people cannot do having been through horrible experiences. They most certainly don't want to talk about and I guess relive it.

If you have nothing constructive to contribute, then you should say nothing. And if this isn't possible and you are found to be wrong you should be gracious in defeat.

Frankly you have previously made a snide remark to one of my comments on another thread, and you maybe meant it as humour, which I doubt, but if so, I can assure you, it doesn't come across that way, and I found it quite offensive.

I absolutely defend your rights to your comments, just not when they are odious. I suggest that you read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie", you just might actually learn something.

I don't know you Two Stroke, you may actually be a nice guy in your own way, but your comments are not helpful, misinformed, misguided or indeed downright rude. If you are trying to live your life vicariously through others, I suggest you go do something where you can then talk from a perspective that you have actually lived. Otherwise you may end up living a sad and pathetic life.

I remember a quote that went something like this; "throw yourself into life, even if you get hurt. Those that try to avoid getting hurt, never amount to much". Having lived a hard life, I quite understand those words, that is, experiences, however hard, is the greatest teacher.