Can't believe what I saw on the train tonight...

[Gruffalo]

And I bet these 2 Goths HOPED exactly that - that 20 people would film them on their phones, so they can become famous amongst their Goth peers and infamous to the rest of society. If someone had stood up to them, likely a different image would have appeared, and these 2 likely would have been shamed rather than famed.

Thugs are everywhere in society. Just look how so many people sue someone when they don't get what they want - that's thuggery too - intimidation and threat through legal coercion. People don't have the courage or even brains these days to deal with things themselves, or be diplomatic and let things slide.

And to call Stuart a troll is nothing short of short sightedness, and a total inability to accept another person's ideas, beliefs and morals. To start calling him troll and requesting him to leave the forum is somehow not bullying or nonacceptance? Live the differences in life - you'll be rewarded for it. Argue against something you don't believe in, and agree to disagree. Don't resort to pettiness and childish rants.

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Thanks for your incisive comments flash.

Please re-read my previous posts, I did not advocate doing nothing. In fact I didn't advocate anything, I was merely stating that the posts which I believe were inciting violence were inappropriate in this forum.

If you cannot contribute to an adult discussion about violence in society please refrain from posting in this thread.

Stuart

Well then.... you had better make yourself quite clear to us all here....what your ' really ' trying to say....what do you advocate....?? the offense has already happened...you have been assaulted....and your gonna try ' diplomacy ' after the fact......that's letting them off the hook.....deal with it ....it's called self defense.

and as for : I was merely stating that the posts which I believe were inciting violence were inappropriate in this forum......they are expressing what needs to be done to people ( and these girls are Adults ) who behave in such a manner to cause injury to another innocent person.

and re: ' If you cannot contribute to an Adult discussion about violence ' ....but I have..I've made a contribution to this thread..I made my point very clear....put on a pair of glasses if you can't read properly nor comprehend what's being said.

and: ... please refrain from posting in this thread....what a joke ...it's not even your thread.....


As many have said.....we would not stand back and do nothing.......you don't advocate anything....your words fella.

I will use force to subdue force.....but you call it ' violence ' .....

Flash......

[cfranks (Charles)]

Originally Posted by kinetic

In my day we used to live in 'ole in road.

Luxury!

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

My thoughts on the matter are this...
If it was a woman of the same age who was assaulted by these women, would everyone just stand back and let it happen?
In my opinion, if you would stand up and defend a woman, you should do the same for a man.
NO ONE should be subjected to this sort of thing while others stand back and let it happen.
Chivalry should work both ways.
Personally, I would have stood up to them, demanding them to cease their outrageous behaviour and if they didn't, I would hope to have had others near by grow a pair and back me up. A wall of people surrounding them, calling for them to stop should be intimidating enough to hold them until security officers came for them.

[blink138 (Pat)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

My thoughts on the matter are this...
If it was a woman of the same age who was assaulted by these women, would everyone just stand back and let it happen?
In my opinion, if you would stand up and defend a woman, you should do the same for a man.
NO ONE should be subjected to this sort of thing while others stand back and let it happen.
Chivalry should work both ways.
Personally, I would have stood up to them, demanding them to cease their outrageous behaviour and if they didn't, I would hope to have had others near by grow a pair and back me up. A wall of people surrounding them, calling for them to stop should be intimidating enough to hold them until security officers came for them.

here here nettie!
I think it is the act of doing nothing here which is the crime!
personally I am NOT a "keyboard warrior" and I am afraid I would have been in there "boots an all" and that DOES scare me
I also think that these "girls(?)" new that a man In all likelihood would not retaliate!.......... however they did take an enormous risk in that the chap in question said he was 6-4 and a120!

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

My thoughts on the matter are this...
If it was a woman of the same age who was assaulted by these women, would everyone just stand back and let it happen?
In my opinion, if you would stand up and defend a woman, you should do the same for a man.
NO ONE should be subjected to this sort of thing while others stand back and let it happen.
Chivalry should work both ways.
Personally, I would have stood up to them, demanding them to cease their outrageous behaviour and if they didn't, I would hope to have had others near by grow a pair and back me up. A wall of people surrounding them, calling for them to stop should be intimidating enough to hold them until security officers came for them.

Fair enough, preventing them from continuing their assault and detaining them is reasonable. [Assaulting them or throwing them off the train isn't.] I would like to say I'd be with you but I fear I know myself too well and I'm basically a coward. About 20 years ago I was standing in my backyard when a bloke who had just robbed the neighbours place jumped the fence with a bag of loot. I tried to yell at him to stop but all that came out was a strangled yelp. By the time I took a deep breath and got a real yell out he had dropped the bag and run. So perhaps my presence did spook him but my actions didn't. I'm afraid a few of us may find that our inner chook comes out just when we don't need it. I wonder how often the apparent indifference of bystanders isn't really just blind fear?

[rat156]

Originally Posted by FlashDrive

Well then.... you had better make yourself quite clear to us all here....what your ' really ' trying to say....what do you advocate....?? the offense has already happened...you have been assaulted....and your gonna try ' diplomacy ' after the fact......that's letting them off the hook.....deal with it ....it's called self defense.

and as for : I was merely stating that the posts which I believe were inciting violence were inappropriate in this forum......they are expressing what needs to be done to people ( and these girls are Adults ) who behave in such a manner to cause injury to another innocent person.

and re: ' If you cannot contribute to an Adult discussion about violence ' ....but I have..I've made a contribution to this thread..I made my point very clear....put on a pair of glasses if you can't read properly nor comprehend what's being said.

and: ... please refrain from posting in this thread....what a joke ...it's not even your thread.....


As many have said.....we would not stand back and do nothing.......you don't advocate anything....your words fella.

I will use force to subdue force.....but you call it ' violence ' .....

Flash......

Your italics lock appears to be stuck on. Also your period key appear to stick, it makes your posts difficult to read.

But, trolling through your post, trying to extract the meaning from it, I think you've missed the point again.

You, and others, are attacking my perceived opinion that I would have stood back and done nothing to help this bloke out. A statement I have never made. A statement I would not make because it is untrue.

What I have said, now repeatedly, I'll put it in italics so you can read it.

I object to the posts calling for a violent reaction to the girl's actions.

Is that clear now?

The posts by Nettie and Astraltraveller above probably best sum up my expected response to the situation should I have been faced with it.

Stuart

[rat156]

Originally Posted by noeyedeer

seriously Stuart. you chose to be in the army or whatever ... blame America for Afghanistan, and thirdly no one cares

Thanks for your support.

Stuart

[rat156]

Originally Posted by noeyedeer

conscripted men got spat on when they returned from Vietnam ... I doubt you will ... think yourself lucky Stuart

ps its me shooting at you from my camo bunker in COD MW3

Now I know why my BA has a plate in the back!

Stuart

[FlashDrive (Poppy)]

@rat156 ....Never mind....we all see things differently from where we sit.
...and yes my Italic button is how I like to use it.

Flash.....

[pluto (Hugh)]

Originally Posted by noeyedeer

...and thirdly no one cares

I care that you're serving our country Stuart, thanks.

[Starless (Brian)]

Originally Posted by pluto

I care that you're serving our country Stuart, thanks.

Likewise!
Keep up the good work and keep your head down.

[beren]

Second that, I care to thanks Stuart.

[Hans Tucker (Hans)]

Originally Posted by Gruffalo

And I bet these 2 Goths HOPED exactly that - that 20 people would film them on their phones, so they can become famous amongst their Goth peers and infamous to the rest of society. If someone had stood up to them, likely a different image would have appeared, and these 2 likely would have been shamed rather than famed.

Thugs are everywhere in society. Just look how so many people sue someone when they don't get what they want - that's thuggery too - intimidation and threat through legal coercion. People don't have the courage or even brains these days to deal with things themselves, or be diplomatic and let things slide.

And to call Stuart a troll is nothing short of short sightedness, and a total inability to accept another person's ideas, beliefs and morals. To start calling him troll and requesting him to leave the forum is somehow not bullying or nonacceptance? Live the differences in life - you'll be rewarded for it. Argue against something you don't believe in, and agree to disagree. Don't resort to pettiness and childish rants.

And you believe that Stuart has accepted other peoples ideas, belief and morals. I really think you should go back and read his first contribution to this thread. I don't advocate violence and I don't really agree with some of the responses posted in this thread but I sure understand peoples initial response to the story and their view that a physical, albeit violent, retaliation was warranted to the situation...it's a natural initial human response..one that is shared by most but not shared by all. So respect is a two way street and I don't really believe Stuart has shown the same courtesy to others that he expects from them....just my 2 cents worth.

When we resort to name calling I think the argument/discussion/debate has run it's course.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

And you believe that Stuart has accepted other peoples ideas, belief and morals. I really think you should go back and read his first contribution to this thread. I don't advocate violence and I don't really agree with some of the responses posted in this thread but I sure understand peoples initial response to the story and their view that a physical, albeit violent, retaliation was warranted to the situation...it's a natural initial human response..one that is shared by most but not shared by all. So respect is a two way street and I don't really believe Stuart has shown the same courtesy to others that he expects from them....just my 2 cents worth.

When we resort to name calling I think the argument/discussion/debate has run it's course.

Hi Hans,

I accept that people have opinions that differ from my own, I just don't agree with them.

I think that this will be the fifth time I've said this, my distaste was levelled at the posts which were advocating violence as a solution to the problem. Initially, at least, my posts were not about the actions which initiated the thread.

I have apologised to the two people whose posts I misinterpreted. I have never received an apology from anyone on this forum for any abuse I have received, (save for one individual, the conversation was at a PM level) from this thread or any other, nor do I expect one.

My first contribution to this thread stated that I was disgusted at the opinions being aired. This opinion hasn't changed. I don't see that having a different opinion is disrespectful.

Stuart

[DavidU (Dave)]

I for one respect Stuarts point of view, no problem at all.

[CJ (Chris)]

Me too.

[2stroke (Jay)]

Originally Posted by rat156

Please, if you're going to use my forum name, at least get it right. I (usually) sign my posts with my name, you could always use that instead.

This has been the second post suggesting that I should "man up" or something similar, along with a couple of posts saying I'm either delusional or living in a "bubble".

To this I can only say, firstly, you assume I'm a man, which is correct, but until now was still an assumption. Which brings me on to the second, and possibly more important fact, you don't know me, what I do or where I am. I can't go into too many details on this forum, but at present, my "bubble" is in Afghanistan, where I see the results of extreme violence almost every day, I get shot at regularly.

Perhaps some of those calling for violence should "man up" themselves and see the consequences of the failure of diplomacy first hand.

Stuart

Well if you really are in afghanistan, state what the they did at pre deployment training, what they trained you to do (anyone who has being there has being trained with this) and were it was held? In another thread you were watching a doco on afgan back in April, nice image from afgan to mate in march. Mate my cousine (3rd tour) singnals and 2 of my very best friends inf/rifleman are in afgan currently and i know all the facts. how much is your weekly allowance?

[TrevorW]

Stew violence is always a last resort if they failed to listen to reason and

a) ceased and desist
b) apologized to the victim
c) pay for the mans dry cleaning
d) clean up the mess they caused on the train
e) apologize to other passengers for their bad behavior
f) be accountable for your actions to authorities

then violence would be unnecessary.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

Well if you really are in afghanistan, state what the they did at pre deployment training, what they trained you to do (anyone who has being there has being trained with this) and were it was held? In another thread you were watching a doco on afgan back in April, nice image from afgan to mate in march. Mate my cousine (3rd tour) singnals and 2 of my very best friends inf/rifleman are in afgan currently and i know all the facts. how much is your weekly allowance?

As part of SOTG I am not at liberty to say what I did at pre-deployment training other than that which is conducted at Randwick Barracks, three days of death by Powerpoint, followed by two days of weapons testing, with a little bit of CBC training thrown in.

The incountry RSOI is very similar for conventional forces.

I don't want to discuss my personal finances over the internet.

It sounds like you disbelieve that I'm actually here? If so, please state it clearly and concisely.

Unless you have been here, then I doubt you know ALL the facts. I'm here and I certainly don't.

Stuart