Membership Cliques

[Paul Haese]

Stuart and all, sometimes I read these sort of posts and threads and wonder if I am one of the "guilty" (Probably I am)?? With the volume of posts made here even a person with my amount of free time finds it hard to comment on many threads. Many people work and have families and that limits their time.

Sometimes I think it is better not to say anything to a particular thread (yes I have learnt that little lesson moderators). Starting a thread which is going to get people offside will only encourage cliquey behaviour.

Is there a Clique here? Yep pretty sure there is. Is that different from anywhere else in this world? Nope, this sort of thing happens every where. That is why you have a circle of friends and not friends with everyone you meet.

How does this all fit in with what you are saying Stuart? Do you feel that you are being excluded? If so ask yourself why. If you are comfortable with your own actions; then does it really matter if you are being excluded? Surely those people are not worthy of being your friends.

[Poita (Peter)]

Originally Posted by mental4astro

Peter, here's the sketching sticky from the Observational and Visual forum:

Solar System and DSO sketching

And the Moon has its own sketching thread:

Sketch the Moon Night

And for the heck of it, my last sketch done a week ago of Omega Centauri from home:

Attachment 112490

Andrew, 8 kids, eh. Freak'n' awesome!

Thanks, I'll bookmark them, that way I won't forget. I don't dig into the obs forum generally, so forget they are there.
I think a sketching forum under the IMAGES section of the site would make sense for people to put up their stuff just like the imagers do. It is the same thing really. I'll suggest it to Mike.

[blink138 (Pat)]

You don't have to read it, you don't have to agree with me, but surely I have the right to say it?
I suppose you want the right to have babies as well...... quote

"from now on i want to be called loretta...."
cleese "but why stan?"
pat

[Poita (Peter)]

It's my right as a man.

[Poita (Peter)]

I worked out why I always can't find it again.
It is in the 'Stickies' section. Most sites I visit are tech sites, and the stuff in the stickies is effectively the FAQs for new visitors or reference material that rarely changes, so I am programmed to quite literally tune-out anything above the line...

Also I assumed 'Sketch the moon night' was referring to a one-off event, so I never clicked on it.

Originally Posted by mental4astro

Peter, here's the sketching sticky from the Observational and Visual forum:

Solar System and DSO sketching

And the Moon has its own sketching thread:

Sketch the Moon Night

And for the heck of it, my last sketch done a week ago of Omega Centauri from home:

Attachment 112490

Andrew, 8 kids, eh. Freak'n' awesome!

[sjastro]

As much as it is against my better judgement for posting here since I have gone from being a regular poster to a lurker, I'm compelled to make a few comments.

Cliques are either deliberately formed, or the description is imposed on others as a form of stereotyping.
Since the Science forum has cropped up in this discussion let me use it as an example.
Being once a regular contributor in the forum evidently turned me into an elitist, a wanker, an arrogant snob, an ineffective communicator and a host of other goodies. Strange the criticisms seemed to be directly related to the obscurity the subject matter being discussed.

Evidently you are a far worse human being discussing quantum physics than say astronomy.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...t=84318&page=6

We are all familiar with the evils of various "isms" such as racism and sexism, anti intellectualism regretfully is rife and forms the mechanism of accusing others of forming cliques.

Anyway I will go back to lurking.

Regards

Steven

[niko]

Alexander - that is a breath taking sketch. I, too, will try to drop in more often.

I have found IIS to be the most welcoming and supportive forum/community for what is really a pretty obscure past-time done by people generally sitting alone in the dark! A huge thank you to everyone that responds to my queries and accepts my infrequent posts in the spirit with which they are meant.

There's an old adage that if an e-mail can be misread, it will be. It's true here to - without the benefit of face-to-face contact we read things without visual or audio clues as to the true intention. Sometimes it requires a moment's pause either posting or reading to check we aren't misinterpreting the intention.

We also need a thick skin but I agree that if you post you should expect feedback - good, bad and indifferent.I read far more than I post on and currently feel out of my league to offer critical comments on things I know little about. Sometimes I see images that appear very garish to me but I resist saying so unless the poster have specifically asked for constructive criticism. Maybe "constructive" is there key here...? As Jen says, we are all here for one reason - love of astronomy in all its guises. That may be as far as the connection goes for many of us. I certainly have been aghast at some of the political commenatry on this forum but I choose to ignore it or will enter the fray as the mood takes me - it just has toi be a certain amount of water of a duck's back.

The forum is great and as a largely self-moderated environment we should be proud of ourselves, and thankful to the moderators for creating and maintaining it.Sturat, we've never met but I'd delight in seeing the work of another Melbourne based AP'er. I can't always promise to post a response and may never have a useful contribution to make but I do find other people's work inspirational - especially during these long cloudy periods.

Recently, I have had self-interest drive my contact with the forum. I've been seeking advice on how to improve my talents. I actively seek critical comment - in a way, the harsher the better so I learn (whip me nunny, whip me) but then it's also nice to hear a "good onya" too.For my part, I'll try to log on as a user (not a guest) more often and be mindful to comment more.Let's not let the odd lack of encouragement discourage us for this generally fantastic community.

Ignore the haters, embrace the lovers

niko

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

As much as it is against my better judgement for posting here since I have gone from being a regular poster to a lurker, I'm compelled to make a few comments.

Cliques are either deliberately formed, or the description is imposed on others as a form of stereotyping.
Since the Science forum has cropped up in this discussion let me use it as an example.
Being once a regular contributor in the forum evidently turned me into an elitist, a wanker, an arrogant snob, an ineffective communicator and a host of other goodies. Strange the criticisms seemed to be directly related to the obscurity the subject matter being discussed.

Evidently you are a far worse human being discussing quantum physics than say astronomy.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...t=84318&page=6

We are all familiar with the evils of various "isms" such as racism and sexism, anti intellectualism regretfully is rife and forms the mechanism of accusing others of forming cliques.

Anyway I will go back to lurking.

Regards

Steven

Well I think the science forums were pretty cool when Carl, yourself, Craig, Bert, Stephen and the occasional EU crackpot were chatting about stuff that was mostly well over my head but sometimes I did learn some and I really enjoyed going through the various outside links you guys posted. I used to read a lot of the posts and spend a lot of time there. Kind of miss it actually. Sure there were a few heated arguments at times but it always levelled out in the end.

As far as being intimidated by posting in the science forums because the 'level' was too high, well if you don't get it or don't have the tools you don't post there, just read and learn some. Plain and simple. It's a science forum. It shouldn't be moderated right down or downgraded to allow all the kiddies to play in. That's what general chat is for. Same goes for every other forum sections. Beginners, Advanced, Layback, Hardcore geeks, etc... There is enough variety to fit any shoe on IIS.

[Regulus (Trevor)]

Where do you get 50c pencils from??????????

[Dave2042 (Dave)]

Originally Posted by sjastro

As much as it is against my better judgement for posting here since I have gone from being a regular poster to a lurker, I'm compelled to make a few comments.

Cliques are either deliberately formed, or the description is imposed on others as a form of stereotyping.
Since the Science forum has cropped up in this discussion let me use it as an example.
Being once a regular contributor in the forum evidently turned me into an elitist, a wanker, an arrogant snob, an ineffective communicator and a host of other goodies. Strange the criticisms seemed to be directly related to the obscurity the subject matter being discussed.

Evidently you are a far worse human being discussing quantum physics than say astronomy.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...t=84318&page=6

We are all familiar with the evils of various "isms" such as racism and sexism, anti intellectualism regretfully is rife and forms the mechanism of accusing others of forming cliques.

Anyway I will go back to lurking.

Regards

Steven

Hi Steven

As an infrequent and relatively new poster mainly in the Science forum, can I say I am mystified that anyone would react to your posts that way. I've always felt your posts were reasonable and insightful.

Some characters in that forum have occasionally strayed into more confrontational language, or (in my opinion) fringe views and I can understand a level of irritation at this. However, even in those cases, I think the relevant people were posting in good faith and that differences of opinion are part of the internet as they are part of life.

Obviously some level of politeness is necessary, but to me, a forum is most interesting when people are allowed to disagree enthusiastically. I think this site's moderation does a reasonable job of maintaining a balance here.

Personally I consider it my own obligation to not take things too much to heart. (That's not directed at you, by the way.)

Regards

[PCH (Paul)]

Alex

OMG that is an awesome pic of Omega Centauri. I'd have bet my life it was a photo. But for you to come up with a drawing of that quality is beyond awesome mate - it's .... whatever better than awesome is - lol.

And Andrew, - I'm with them. You should get a television

Originally Posted by mental4astro

Peter, here's the sketching sticky from the Observational and Visual forum:

Solar System and DSO sketching

And the Moon has its own sketching thread:

Sketch the Moon Night

And for the heck of it, my last sketch done a week ago of Omega Centauri from home:

Attachment 112490

Andrew, 8 kids, eh. Freak'n' awesome!

[bojan]

Cliques?
Yes they are here, and they do cross horns sometimes.. passionately and sometimes the good judgement of appropriateness of level of engagement is forgotten or not there at all.
- ATMer's vs buyers of equipment (with lots of money in their pocket)
- Science geeks vs pseudoscience followers
- Apple vs the rest of the world.... Linux vs MS.. Android vs... whatever.

Those are fact of life, that's all.. and we simply have to accept that. I certainly do.

[PeterM]

[QUOTE=multiweb;838381]Well I think the science forums were pretty cool when Carl, yourself, Craig, Bert, Stephen and the occasional EU crackpot were chatting about stuff that was mostly well over my head but sometimes I did learn some and I really enjoyed going through the various outside links you guys posted. I used to read a lot of the posts and spend a lot of time there. Kind of miss it actually. Sure there were a few heated arguments at times but it always levelled out in the end.

Well said Marc,
I miss it too.
The science forum is so much the poorer for the loss of contributions from all the above named. The debates were often robust and while one may not have a agreed with all said they made great reading and often great learning. Many really good links provided and sjastro and craigs presented some links to some recent SN studies, stuff that is not easily found.

PeterM.

[Poita (Peter)]

It seems that quite a few poster's main beef is that their posts go unacknowledged or their advice 'ignored' or their images un-commented on. That is understandable, but this is a busy place and it will happen sometimes.

My advice is of variable quality, as is my experience, but if I was only going to post if I got a response, I wouldn't post much.

Sometimes I'll spend an hour or more putting together and researching a reply, and it doesn't get a comment, or like the other day when I spent a few hours uploading some files and no-one seemed interested. I reckon that is par for the course, this is a busy place and sometimes one's advice or images or comments will not get noticed. They may get noticed but no-one happens to comment. Or the OP might not be interested in the advice at this point in time. I think that is fine.
I've lost count of the amount of times I have found info I needed in a 2 year old post, or a side comment in an unrelated post etc. so even if it isn't of use now, it most likely will help someone in the future.

I post because I enjoy the discussion, I like the people here and I like to help out if I can, even if sometimes I may hinder . I don't do it to get thanks or even acknowledgement, I figure that whatever I write may be of use to someone, someday even if it goes ignored for now.
If the OP gets back to me or not doesn't bug me at all. I like it when it turns out something I posted really *did* help, it makes me all warm and fuzzy, but if there is only silence, then hey, what does it matter, I'm not posting for the Kudos, I just like hanging out here and enjoying the flow of information.

Either that or it's like my Mum used to say, that I could talk with a mouth full of rocks underwater...

[Barrykgerdes]

I see there is a thread on pictures posted by a newer member in the beginners forum that got 9 nice comments in a few hours.

How's that for rubbing it in.

Barry

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

I see there is a thread on pictures posted by a newer member in the beginners forum that got 9 nice comments in a few hours.

How's that for rubbing it in.

Barry

What the hell does that mean...... You drink to much?

[Barrykgerdes]

Originally Posted by Hagar

What the hell does that mean...... You drink to much?

I will explain it for you.

This thread was started because the poster bid not belong to the clique of people who tell each other how good their photos are.

My post refers to a new member who posted her pictures of the moon (I think) in the Beginners forum and got 9 responses. within a few hours.

Barry

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

I will explain it for you.

This thread was started because the poster bid not belong to the clique of people who tell each other how good their photos are.

My post refers to a new member who posted her pictures of the moon (I think) in the Beginners forum and got 9 responses. within a few hours.

Barry

Wonderfull stuff, some encouragment for a beginner. Just hope your advice is of reasonable quality and not that of a 2 minute expert without just thought.
Comments are only as good as the person making them. What is being discussed here is the fact that quality/meaningfull feedback is posted within the overall group, be it deep sky imaging or planetary etc.
There is enough visitors who choose to look at images but refuse or fail to make any constructive comments and when someone does comment constructively eg Paul Haese he is ridiculed, by lots of others who don't comment or don't know enough to comment.
You need to ensure you comments aren't construed as rubbish comments due to their context or relevance like the last one. Have another glass for me.

[cventer]

Seems to be one of these post developing its own personality with a bunch of people arguing and eventually forgetting what they were originally arguing about.


Fact is this is a very busy forum. The quality of images being produced by our members are world class. Just under a year ago when I got back into imaging I was embarrassed to post any images. But the comments I got on ones I did and the drive I get viewing some of the amazing images push me to keep getting better. I love the comments both good and bad. 9 out of 10 times the constructive feedback is spot on and drives me to reprocess or get more data.


Given how busy the deep space forum is I can't read and comment on all of the posts. I do however do my best to comment on those who have taken the time to comment on mine. This is just good manners. if this means I am then part of a clique so be it. I also do tend to prioritise looking at the images of some of our better imagers because they set the standard for what I hope to achieve.


Occasionally I see certain post get a lot of ongoing commentary and I am not sure I see what the big deal is. But that's just personal taste. If I like something I say so. If I can offer advice for improvement I will. If neither of the above I won't say anything.

Let's hope this does not discourage people from posting their images.


Also if you want feedback. ask for it!

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by Jen

i dissapear from these forums for a week and i come back to another negative thread Sometimes i just think you all forget why we joined this site in the first place we all have a love for astronomy

That is all !!!!!!

Originally Posted by rat156

So threads which are negative or express some misgivings about the site are now banned?

Welcome to the Orwellian vision.

You don't have to read it, you don't have to agree with me, but surely I have the right to say it?

Cheers
Stuart